Yanis Varoufakis

johnnytodd

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Now this fella is publishing a book or maybe he already has about how Europe is run by Merkel and Merkel alone. Another reason why us leavers voted out.

Germany a country who forced Greece to lend them billions in the second world war is now forcing them to cut pensions in order to pay back EU debt.

Yet the debt Germany owed Greece from WW2 has never been paid back........( because of the London agreement i know)

So glad i voted out of this corrupt union.
 

Abertawe

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You do know this bloke is the opposite of everything you purport to stand for?
 
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johnnytodd

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You do know this bloke is the opposite of everything you purport to stand for?
I don't stand for anyone Aber as you well know i just think it's a bit unfair on Greece.
 

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I don't stand for anyone Aber as you well know i just think it's a bit unfair on Greece.
Greece got themselves in the shit by borrowing off the back of the German economy when they joined the Euro under false pretences.

That Varoufakis is bitter towards the EU isn't surprising considering he was trying to get them to write off all the debts to the Euro central bank and they refused to play ball. I don't blame the eurozone countries for refusing to write off the debt and in the process preventing a contagion that would've led other countries like Spain, Portugal and Ireland expecting similar treatment.

Sadly though these 'bailouts' do not help Greece pay back any debt, they just kick the problem down the road. There needs to be some acknowledgement that the set up of the Euro was faulty and to convert the Greek debt into an interest free loan with more favourable repayment period.

The good news is that the Greek economy is growing again and that unemployment is starting to fall.

What I agree with Varoufakis on is his view that our government's negotiating position is completely nuts.
We need to apply for entry into the EFTA as soon as possible to remove the threat of no trade deal in 18 months time and to give us longer to negotiate proper terms.
 

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Greece got themselves in the shit by borrowing off the back of the German economy when they joined the Euro under false pretences.

That Varoufakis is bitter towards the EU isn't surprising considering he was trying to get them to write off all the debts to the Euro central bank and they refused to play ball. I don't blame the eurozone countries for refusing to write off the debt and in the process preventing a contagion that would've led other countries like Spain, Portugal and Ireland expecting similar treatment.

Sadly though these 'bailouts' do not help Greece pay back any debt, they just kick the problem down the road. There needs to be some acknowledgement that the set up of the Euro was faulty and to convert the Greek debt into an interest free loan with more favourable repayment period.

The good news is that the Greek economy is growing again and that unemployment is starting to fall.

What I agree with Varoufakis on is his view that our government's negotiating position is completely nuts.
We need to apply for entry into the EFTA as soon as possible to remove the threat of no trade deal in 18 months time and to give us longer to negotiate proper terms.
Can't argue with any of that. I've not read this book but the WW2 debt Germany owed Greece was huge. It can't be an easy pill to swallow when the people being hurt most by the German stance on this are pensioners from Greece.
 

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Can't argue with any of that. I've not read this book but the WW2 debt Germany owed Greece was huge. It can't be an easy pill to swallow when the people being hurt by the German stance on this most are pensioners from Greece.
Sorry but that is a rubbish argument. The writing off of a loan to Germany for rebuilding infrastructure that had been bombed to bits does not give you permission to wrack up debts on your credit card living beyond your means.

If the Greeks want to blame anyone it should be their own politicians for taking the money on the never never.
 

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Germany a country who forced Greece to lend them billions in the second world war is now forcing them to cut pensions in order to pay back EU debt.

Greece lend "Germany" Billions? ok, you surely mean the German Reich and not Germany but I don't want to be a nitpicker here. The German Reich invaded Greece. Greece wants "Kriegsentschädigungen" (war reparations) not "lend money back". Two different things.
And Germany (as the successor of the German Reich has paid after the war millions on war reparations to Greece (and some of this money "disappeared in the bureaucracy in Greece")

I am sure that you don't understand German but I want to show an article about this nonetheless. It shows how illusional the Greece claims are (try google translate :D )

https://www.welt.de/geschichte/zwei...iechenland-noch-Schulden-bei-Deutschland.html

btw: Greece has had "marvellous pensions funds". Some even claimed pensions for long dead persons. Ah, and Greece was a country where you could even get a 14 months salary if you were a public servant (In Germany we only get a 13th months salary (Christmas money so to say). Greece has lived above its capabilities for decades that's why they came into this situation. It's totally clear that there has to be cuts. And they can't lend money from the EU and then hoping that all is deferred.
But I see that the situation in Greece has bettered a bit now. At least I hope so
 
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johnnytodd

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Sorry but that is a rubbish argument. The writing off of a loan to Germany for rebuilding infrastructure that had been bombed to bits does not give you permission to wrack up debts on your credit card living beyond your means.

If the Greeks want to blame anyone it should be their own politicians for taking the money on the never never.
It cuts both ways in my opinion, both have had shit governments for very different reasons and its wrong that Greek pensioners have been made to pay it back.
 

johnnytodd

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Greece lend "Germany" Billions? ok, you surely mean the German Reich and not Germany but I don't want to be a nitpicker here. The German Reich invaded Greece. Greece wants "Kriegsentschädigungen" (war reparations) not "lend money back". Two different things.
And Germany (as the successor of the German Reich has paid after the war millions on war reparations to Greece (and some of this money "disappeared in the bureaucracy in Greece")

I am sure that you don't understand German but I want to show an article about this nonetheless. It shows how illusional the Greece claims are (try google translate :D )

https://www.welt.de/geschichte/zwei...iechenland-noch-Schulden-bei-Deutschland.html

btw: Greece has had "marvellous pensions funds". Some even claimed pensions for long dead persons. Ah, and Greece was a country where you could even get a 14 months salary if you were a public servant (In Germany we only get a 13th months salary (Christmas money so to say). Greece has lived above its capabilities for decades that's why they came into this situation. It's totally clear that there has to be cuts. And they can't lend money from the EU and then hoping that all is deferred.
But I see that the situation in Greece has bettered a bit now. At least I hope so
What was the ' London Agreement ' then Dirk? i thought that was put in place to cancel the debt.
 

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What was the ' London Agreement ' then Dirk? i thought that was put in place to cancel the debt.

I was irritated by your term "Greece lend them (Germany) billions" because that's not right. Greece are wanting war reparations. And you're right, the London Agreement regulated war reparations that Germany (as successor of the German Reich) has to pay to several states. In 2010 Germany made the last payment.

edit: Just found a wiki article about it (Ok, wiki isn't the most reliable source). Here it says:
On 3 October 2010 the last payment was made of 69.9 million euro.[5] This is considered to be the last payment by Germany on all known debts resulting from both world wars.

The Greece claim isn't legitimate. Judges already have said that. But it makes good "propaganda" to insult Germany as the biggest economy in Europe that they "don't pay their debts to poorly Greece".
 

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I was irritated by your term "Greece lend them (Germany) billions" because that's not right. Greece are wanting war reparations. And you're right, the London Agreement regulated war reparations that Germany (as successor of the German Reich) has to pay to several states. In 2010 Germany made the last payment.

edit: Just found a wiki article about it (Ok, wiki isn't the most reliable source). Here it says:
On 3 October 2010 the last payment was made of 69.9 million euro.[5] This is considered to be the last payment by Germany on all known debts resulting from both world wars.

The Greece claim isn't legitimate. Judges already have said that. But it makes good "propaganda" to insult Germany as the biggest economy in Europe that they "don't pay their debts to poorly Greece".
I watched a TV programme on it and they reckoned the Nazis ( sorry not Germany today) stole £85 billion. And it has never been repaid, it was obviously a one side argument on the TV. In any case the main point was how the EU are forcing Greece to penalize pensioners.
 

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No question, the Nazis were scum. And when they invaded a country they stole valuables. Unfortunately, that's what Invaders always do (the russians did the same when they stole valuables from the defeated German Reich ( the famous Prussian Bernsteinzimmer is the most known of it. )

In any case the main point was how the EU are forcing Greece to penalize pensioners.

As I said. Greece lived for decades above their capabilites. They wanted credits from the EU. And when you give a credit you want "securities". One of the securities was for example that Greece has to cut their expenses. There were excesses and corruption especially in the public sector (the aforementioned "Death pensions" and "14th months salary" which you can't find in any other european country. The wealthy Greece people had their money in off shore accounts. It was absolute chaos. So this was one of the conditions for giving Greece (several) billions of credit. They had to "clean their house " (means they have to cut their expenses). Sorry, I don't know about the penalizing of pensioners in Greece. Do you have a (reliable) source about it (and this means: No Daily Mail or Sun ;) )
 

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Disgusting that there's absolutely no guilt or remorse from the "German's" now they've had a rebrand.
 

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No question, the Nazis were scum. And when they invaded a country they stole valuables. Unfortunately, that's what Invaders always do (the russians did the same when they stole valuables from the defeated German Reich ( the famous Prussian Bernsteinzimmer is the most known of it. )



As I said. Greece lived for decades above their capabilites. They wanted credits from the EU. And when you give a credit you want "securities". One of the securities was for example that Greece has to cut their expenses. There were excesses and corruption especially in the public sector (the aforementioned "Death pensions" and "14th months salary" which you can't find in any other european country. The wealthy Greece people had their money in off shore accounts. It was absolute chaos. So this was one of the conditions for giving Greece (several) billions of credit. They had to "clean their house " (means they have to cut their expenses). Sorry, I don't know about the penalizing of pensioners in Greece. Do you have a (reliable) source about it (and this means: No Daily Mail or Sun ;) )
Obviously you believe like the rest on here what you hear on mainstream tv Dirk...i don't read the Sun or Daily Mail however the latter is more reliable than SKY and the BBC
 

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What did I hear on "mainstream tv"? So tell me the truth about Greece and Germany then from........? Johnny I didn't mean that you read the abovementioned "publications" but only in the case that you'll find a link from the 2 I don't want it ;)

edit: And stormfront etc is taboo too :D
 

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Obviously you believe like the rest on here what you hear on mainstream tv Dirk...i don't read the Sun or Daily Mail however the latter is more reliable than SKY and the BBC
Lol!!
Daily Mail is not more reliable than the other sources.
I don't trust any of them and when they report stories that interest me I look for their source. 9 times out of ten the mail stories are completely out of context with the original sources and so deliberately give a false impression, often the sensationalised headline bares no relation to the actual story.

I don't watch TV at all so mainstream TV isn't a problem for me.

As long as you know that every news outlet has a bias and you account for the bias then you won't be far wrong, but shouting fake news at MSM just makes you as foolish as trump.

The Greek claim for compensation is a smokescreen. I'm sure we could come up with similar claims for more money if we found our national debt exceeding gdp and our credit rating falling. Far to easy to look to blame others when you screw up.
 

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The Greek claim for compensation is a smokescreen. I'm sure we could come up with similar claims for more money if we found our national debt exceeding gdp and our credit rating falling. Far to easy to look to blame others when you screw up.

^This!
 

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Lol!!
Daily Mail is not more reliable than the other sources.
I don't trust any of them and when they report stories that interest me I look for their source. 9 times out of ten the mail stories are completely out of context with the original sources and so deliberately give a false impression, often the sensationalised headline bares no relation to the actual story.

I don't watch TV at all so mainstream TV isn't a problem for me.

As long as you know that every news outlet has a bias and you account for the bias then you won't be far wrong, but shouting fake news at MSM just makes you as foolish as trump.

The Greek claim for compensation is a smokescreen. I'm sure we could come up with similar claims for more money if we found our national debt exceeding gdp and our credit rating falling. Far to easy to look to blame others when you screw up.
I'm not saying its right or wrong and I agree the Greeks are trying it on.
My only bug bare is Greek pensioners having to fork out to pay a debt.
And believe me I know 99% of the population are brainwashed from birth by the powers that be.
 

johnnytodd

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Lol!!
Daily Mail is not more reliable than the other sources.
I don't trust any of them and when they report stories that interest me I look for their source. 9 times out of ten the mail stories are completely out of context with the original sources and so deliberately give a false impression, often the sensationalised headline bares no relation to the actual story.

I don't watch TV at all so mainstream TV isn't a problem for me.

As long as you know that every news outlet has a bias and you account for the bias then you won't be far wrong, but shouting fake news at MSM just makes you as foolish as trump.

The Greek claim for compensation is a smokescreen. I'm sure we could come up with similar claims for more money if we found our national debt exceeding gdp and our credit rating falling. Far to easy to look to blame others when you screw up.
We should claim some money from Spain , I just paid £8.00 for cod and chips.
 

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