Biggest club

Boletus Edulis · Jul 16, 2017

Indian Dan said:
The same as all of us - blind optimism

I am rather hoping for some rational argument.

Reaper · Jul 16, 2017

Franchisor said:
You forgot to mention us Lance Stoe. We averaged more than Rotherham last season.

And Bristol Rovers averaged less than them.

Having a huge away end helps though but still decent crowds nevertheless.

StevieEvansRedNWhiteArmy · Jul 16, 2017

Boletus Edulis said:
I could not give a flying fig about your attendances. I'd rather you answer my question about the disparity between your abject performance last year, and why you think you will be so good this?

Well we're going from playing fully fledged internationals week in week out. To shithouses from Plymouth to Oldham.

The gulf in class is massive. We've got proven league one quality in the side that's been there and done it multiple times with multiple promotions.

To think we will simply sit in mid table sell season is bollocks. The likes of Jon Taylor, Anthony Forde, David Ball and Lee Frecklington to just name a few have proved they're too good for this league before.

Anybody with half decent football knowledge would look at our team and realise that.

StevieEvansRedNWhiteArmy · Jul 16, 2017

Reaper said:
I might be wrong but if you read his post again from earlier bout being in the top 6 then im sure he means attendances and not the performances on the field.

I did. I thought anybody with half a brain cell would recognise that.

Seems not.

Simpo · Jul 16, 2017

OH MY GOD this thread is hilarious.

Sheffsteel · Jul 16, 2017

Bar Carousel said:
I'm not getting into a willy waving debate here.

I think you give Charlton some decent honest owners and a successful season and they'd piss over everyone in terms of attendances this season. One of my favourite away ends and looking forward to taking a big noisy following there again this season after what feels like years.

Bradfords crowds are skewed by the low prices (and hats off to them for that - why can't that be the norm?) But definitely shows there's an appetite for the football club within the community.

Whilst the Venky's are in at Blackburn then they'll never pull in regular big crowds and quite right too. Get them out and the boycotters return and they could easily have 20k+ in most weeks with relative success.

I'd even add Plymouth to potential 20K a week. Their away support is as good or better in numbers as anyones. Just doesn't seem to be a desire to pack the ground out at home most weeks.

We'll not make capacity again this season due to the ground problems and segregation of the Milton End (away end). Next season should see it pulled down and replaced which should finally put an end to empty seats in a sold out crowd.

Regardless of any of the above, there's not many leagues in the world at this level that will get even close to the divisions average next season. That's impressive in its own right.

Think you're being over generous about your rivals.

Charlton were runaway leaders of league 1 the other year and averaged 17,402.
Blackburn have similar support to Bolton.
Bolton had a great season last year finishing 2nd, yet only averaged 14,934.

If Blackburn and Charlton had new owners and had a good promotion challenging season then both would average around 15K, well short of your predicted 20K+.

Plymouth haven't averaged 20K for over 60 years.
Over 10 years ago Argyle won league 1 and only averaged 12,654.
Can't see them averaging anywhere near 15K no matter what they do in league 1.

There's only Pompey and Bradford that would have a realistic chance (in a promotion season and if the capacity was increased) of averaging more than 20K in league 1.

PuB · Jul 17, 2017

Will someone wash my eyes please? Pretty much everything I've just read is dirt

Robie · Jul 17, 2017

The biggest club is Milton Keynes Dons (18.)
Closely followed by;
Scunthorpe Unite (17.)
Northampton Town (16.)

UTS · Jul 17, 2017

Because I'm bored... here's the historical side to this debate:

League One teams with (the most) FA cup wins:

Blackburn Rovers - 6
Portsmouth - 2
Bury - 2
Wigan Athletic - 1
Charlton Athletic - 1
Bradford City - 1
Blackpool - 1

Blackburn the clear winners here

League One teams with league cup wins

Oxford United - 1
Blackburn Rovers 1

League One teams with most years in the first tier (PL years) - second tiers

Blackburn Rovers - 72 (18) - 41
Portsmouth - 33 (7) - 40
Charlton Athletic - 29 (8) - 45
Blackpool - 28 (1) - 50
Bury - 22 (0) - 39
Oldham Athletic - 12 (3) - 36
Bradford City - 12 (2) - 29
Wigan Athletic - 8 (8) - 5
Oxford United - 3 (0) - 18
Northampton Town - 1 (0) - 3

Blackburn again clear winners, most Premier League years with 18, followed by Charlton and Wigan with 8 and Pompey with 7.

League One clubs that have been in European competitions (no of seasons)

Blackburn Rovers (7)
Wigan Athletic (1)
Portsmouth (1)

Blackburn again the clear winners

Looking at these stats, Blackburn are by far the biggest historically, with Rotherham not featuring on any lists.

Robie · Jul 17, 2017

We qualified for Europe in '86 but there was a ban on English clubs entering thanks to Heysel.

Bobbin' · Jul 17, 2017

Blackburn are definitely the biggest historically.

I think Pompey and ourselves can be/have been interchangeable over the years but will put them second overall as their two titles pip us although they have had two stints in the bottom division whereas we have never played below the third tier.

Third is probably about right for us, the rest of you can now argue amongst yourselves :gr:

UTS · Jul 17, 2017

As for attendances, if you use a clubs largest average attendance between 1986 and now.. it's as follows:

Blackburn Rovers - 27,714
Charlton Athletic - 26,403
Wigan Athletic - 20,223
Portsmouth - 20,108
Bradford City - 18,511
Plymouth Argyle - 16,420
Blackpool - 15,775
Oldham Athletic - 15,087
Doncaster Rovers - 11,964
Oxford United - 11,009
Rotherham United - 10,240
Southend United - 10,024
Bristol Rovers - 9,302
Gillingham - 9,293
Peterborough United - 9,111
Walsall - 7,853
Scunthorpe United - 6,434
Northampton Town - 6,389
Bury - 6,177
Shrewsbury - 5,876
AFC Wimbledon - 4,477 (18k as WFC)
Rochdale - 3,556
Fleetwood Town - 3,522

Obvious flaws such as PL years giving certain clubs inflated attendances, however as a general table it looks fairly accurate in terms of club size?

Blackburn again at the top.

Camborne Gills · Jul 17, 2017

StevieEvansRedNWhiteArmy said:
4 promotions, 6 years in the championship, a LDV trophy win and a play off final loss.

I'd also class a mid table finish an achievement after starting a season with -17 points.

Also our attendances have grown to a dependable average over 9k.

Now tell me about Gillingham in the same time period.

Pretty similar actually, 4 promotions including a title, 5 years in the championship (consecutively) and that play off loss. Only made an area final in the JPT, though we did reach the QFs in the FA cup.
We also have the all time record for least goals conceded in the 4th tier (95/6).

Attendances are lower, but your stadium is a new build after all.

Camborne Gills · Jul 17, 2017

Boletus Edulis said:
Kent yes, but also in a London Borough (Bexley) hence my tongue in cheek comment. I lived there1974-1994. The London Borough link adds some non Kent aspects to living in Welling. So as a voter I was part of London where my council tax went, not Kent County Council. My parliamentary seat was part of London and I voted for the London bodies such as GLC, not Kent CC. so sporting wise Kent, politically largely (though not totally) London.

Valid point Boletus, though it still grinds my gears when Welling is placed in SE London in programmes like Homes under the Hammer

Camborne Gills · Jul 17, 2017

StevieEvansRedNWhiteArmy said:
Awkward. Our average was higher than Plymouth's last season.

You were 2 divisions higher numbnuts :ffs:

Franchisor · Jul 17, 2017

UTS said:
As for attendances, if you use a clubs largest average attendance between 1986 and now.. it's as follows:

Blackburn Rovers - 27,714
Charlton Athletic - 26,403
Wigan Athletic - 20,223
Portsmouth - 20,108
Bradford City - 18,511
Plymouth Argyle - 16,420
Blackpool - 15,775
Oldham Athletic - 15,087
Doncaster Rovers - 11,964
Oxford United - 11,009
Rotherham United - 10,240
Southend United - 10,024
Bristol Rovers - 9,302
Gillingham - 9,293
Peterborough United - 9,111
Walsall - 7,853
Scunthorpe United - 6,434
Northampton Town - 6,389
Bury - 6,177
Shrewsbury - 5,876
AFC Wimbledon - 4,477 (18k as WFC)
Rochdale - 3,556
Fleetwood Town - 3,522

Obvious flaws such as PL years giving certain clubs inflated attendances, however as a general table it looks fairly accurate in terms of club size?

Blackburn again at the top.

But there are 24 clubs in League 1, not 23.

BetterCallSaul · Jul 17, 2017

Franchisor said:
But there are 24 clubs in League 1, not 23.

We don't count as we aren't a real club /s

Franchisor · Jul 17, 2017

BetterCallSaul said:
We don't count as we aren't a real club /s

I keep forgetting

Boletus Edulis · Jul 17, 2017

Camborne Gills said:
Valid point Boletus, though it still grinds my gears when Welling is placed in SE London in programmes like Homes under the Hammer

Don't watch daytime TV then!

I often get taxi drivers in places like Yorkshire and London say something like "Plymouth, oh yeah I was down your way last year" "Oh yes, where were you?" says I, knowing what is coming next, "Portsmouth."

F!RTHY · Jul 17, 2017

Sheffsteel said:
There's only Pompey and Bradford that would have a realistic chance (in a promotion season and if the capacity was increased) of averaging more than 20K in league 1.

Agreed!

- and there's a high chance we will average 20,000+ next season, given we've now passed 19,000 ST sales. (Which means it'll beat our average of 18,511 from 2001).

Only to be bettered by Pompey if they had a capacity to supply demand.

Charlton and Blackburn are predicted to do well next season, and rightly so - but I see neither averaging 16,000+.

*also, we've played in Europe, too.

WilsdenBantam · Jul 17, 2017

F-I-R-T-H-Y said:
*also, we've played in Europe, too.

And we did better than Rangers this season, Just.

roversfan2001 · Jul 17, 2017

So basically, we're actually biggest by far? :hesk:

K-Win · Jul 17, 2017

roversfan2001 said:
So basically, we're actually biggest by far?

So science would appear to suggest. However, I'm not sure you've told us how many train stations you have? (I'm waiting to unleash the fact that we have a hovercraft port, which will surely blow Blackburn away.)

Indian Dan · Jul 17, 2017

roversfan2001 said:
So basically, we're actually biggest by far? :hesk:

Yes. But it also means you are the biggest failures.

Keep on eating them chickens!

Boletus Edulis · Jul 17, 2017

K-Win said:
So science would appear to suggest. However, I'm not sure you've told us how many train stations you have? (I'm waiting to unleash the fact that we have a hovercraft port, which will surely blow Blackburn away.)

But K-win won't non-league Dover have any even more impressive hovercraft port?

K-Win · Jul 17, 2017

Very few hovercraft services left, Boletus. Dover hasn't operated one since 2000. Their football club wasn't big enough to sustain it apparently.

Boletus Edulis · Jul 17, 2017

K-Win said:
Very few hovercraft services left, Boletus. Dover hasn't operated one since 2000. Their football club wasn't big enough to sustain it apparently.

Yes the narrative of football clubs and marine craft is a depressing one. We are losing out nuclear subs in a few years.

Bar Carousel · Jul 17, 2017

UTS said:
Because I'm bored... here's the historical side to this debate:

League One teams with (the most) FA cup wins:

Blackburn Rovers - 6
Portsmouth - 2
Bury - 2
Wigan Athletic - 1
Charlton Athletic - 1
Bradford City - 1
Blackpool - 1

Blackburn the clear winners here

League One teams with league cup wins

Oxford United - 1
Blackburn Rovers 1

League One teams with most years in the first tier (PL years) - second tiers

Blackburn Rovers - 72 (18) - 41
Portsmouth - 33 (7) - 40
Charlton Athletic - 29 (8) - 45
Blackpool - 28 (1) - 50
Bury - 22 (0) - 39
Oldham Athletic - 12 (3) - 36
Bradford City - 12 (2) - 29
Wigan Athletic - 8 (8) - 5
Oxford United - 3 (0) - 18
Northampton Town - 1 (0) - 3

Blackburn again clear winners, most Premier League years with 18, followed by Charlton and Wigan with 8 and Pompey with 7.

League One clubs that have been in European competitions (no of seasons)

Blackburn Rovers (7)
Wigan Athletic (1)
Portsmouth (1)

Blackburn again the clear winners

Looking at these stats, Blackburn are by far the biggest historically, with Rotherham not featuring on any lists.

Just to be pedantic, I would point out that we've actually qualified for Europe twice.

The second time in 2010 after losing the final to Chelsea who had already qualified for the champions league. Back in those halcyon days, between being an utter embarrassment to the Premier League, and owned by one of the myriad of dodgy foreign owners (I forget which one), our place was given to Liverpool instead.

*Edit - + Current reigning Asia Cup Champions (Not been held since)

Bar Carousel · Jul 17, 2017

Sheffsteel said:
Think you're being over generous about your rivals.

Charlton were runaway leaders of league 1 the other year and averaged 17,402.
Blackburn have similar support to Bolton.
Bolton had a great season last year finishing 2nd, yet only averaged 14,934.

If Blackburn and Charlton had new owners and had a good promotion challenging season then both would average around 15K, well short of your predicted 20K+.

Plymouth haven't averaged 20K for over 60 years.
Over 10 years ago Argyle won league 1 and only averaged 12,654.
Can't see them averaging anywhere near 15K no matter what they do in league 1.

There's only Pompey and Bradford that would have a realistic chance (in a promotion season and if the capacity was increased) of averaging more than 20K in league 1.

I've based Blackburn and Charlton's gates on getting a big uplift after shaking off dodgy owners.

Plymouth always surprise me. Big city with no other clubs within miles. Big away support. But they just can't seem to be arsed at home.

Loyal Dale · Jul 17, 2017

I absolutely love the irony of all these clubs scrambling to be acclaimed the biggest.

Surely, being the biggest club in L1 also means that you are the most underperforming club, relative to size. So carry on chums...keep admitting how rubbish you are.

Having said that, I'd forgotten just how utterly tedious the Rotherham fans were. It makes reading Firthy's claptrap worthwhile. Makes you realise just how close to the truth the Python lads were with the Four Yorkshiremen sketch.

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