Punk Rock

Vanni said:

Too commercial/poppy for my liking, though I'm not saying it's a bad song or anything. I had heard of Nation Of Ulysses before, but didn't know anything about them at all until I read Dance of Days, Two Decades of Punk in the Nation's Capital by Mark Anderson. Got it from some car boot seller, and only because it was like a quid or something Good read but nothing exciting, and of course it doesn't deal with some of my fav US bands like DK'S and Bad Religion. However, at least, there's loads on Minor T/Fugazi and Bad Brains.

Ps - Why do you have a pic of UTS(aka Calvin) as your avatar?

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It's funny, because Ian Svenonius is one of the most fascinating, right-on people in music, but the actual records he made/makes with Nation of Ulysses, the Make-Up, Chain and the Gang et al aren't actually that good as far as I'm concerned. Still plenty of good stuff though. And he's the America's Sassiest Teen, of course.

Ian Mackaye of Minor Threat/Fugazi is a wonderful person though. If only more musicians stood for just a third of what he does.

Decided to incorporate UTS into my avatar as I'd seen his avatar doctored by a couple of others on here already, and I want to appear to be part of the in-crowd.

Vanni said:

Yeah give it another listen DB! Unlike you I'm more into the harder side of punk, and The Mob certainly aren't loud or fast, but it's such a great album that deserves your time! As for some of the other bands you mentioned, I don't like Chaos UK as I consider their 'music' as just a noisy racket. Also, got no time at all for The Exploited as, while I don't mind the music, I think there are far too many references to sex, drugs and violence in their songs. OTOH, really admire Crass and Conflict and what they stand/stood for.

I'm with you re. GBH, one hell of a band. English Dogs were decent until they switched to metal, and if there's one thing I really can't stand is when punk bands turn into metal ones!

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Yeah, I must admit that my Punk tastes tend to veer more towards the more melodic/tuneful type of music. However, there are definitely times that nothing other than the loudest brashest music, played at full volume will do!! A bit like today after having a shit day at work.....so looking forward to driving home........Anti Nowhere League today I think... I guess they may be one of the bands that have flirted too closely to metal for you though?

Pliny Harris said:

It's funny, because Ian Svenonius is one of the most fascinating, right-on people in music, but the actual records he made/makes with Nation of Ulysses, the Make-Up, Chain and the Gang et al aren't actually that good as far as I'm concerned. Still plenty of good stuff though. And he's the America's Sassiest Teen, of course.

Ian Mackaye of Minor Threat/Fugazi is a wonderful person though. If only more musicians stood for just a third of what he does.

Decided to incorporate UTS into my avatar as I'd seen his avatar doctored by a couple of others on here already, and I want to appear to be part of the in-crowd.

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Ian mackaye is an absolute hero , there's a bloke who has never compromised on anything . Minor threat are a band I listen to at least once a week , righteous anger at its best ( still not enough to send me straight edge though )

Vanni said:

Yeah give it another listen DB! Unlike you I'm more into the harder side of punk, and The Mob certainly aren't loud or fast, but it's such a great album that deserves your time! As for some of the other bands you mentioned, I don't like Chaos UK as I consider their 'music' as just a noisy racket. Also, got no time at all for The Exploited as, while I don't mind the music, I think there are far too many references to sex, drugs and violence in their songs. OTOH, really admire Crass and Conflict and what they stand/stood for.

I'm with you re. GBH, one hell of a band. English Dogs were decent until they switched to metal, and if there's one thing I really can't stand is when punk bands turn into metal ones!

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Don't mind the exploited for a bit of a mindless thrash , won't go down as a great band but army life is a decent record and wattie is definitely a survivor .

Aber gas said:

Ian mackaye is an absolute hero , there's a bloke who has never compromised on anything . Minor threat are a band I listen to at least once a week , righteous anger at its best ( still not enough to send me straight edge though )

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High class act, what I wish punk would be more often. I've got only respect for those who live it sXe, whether deliberately or not, but I've already got a few pale ales on my desk right now waiting for the weekend.

Fugazi were better still for ethos. Putting the production of physical music into the musicians' hands, gig admission kept low by principle, in all ages venues by principle, accessible and empowering to all by principle. That must've been an ultimate aim of Mackaye's, to drive much more acts into adopting those ideas and make that the future of DIY music.

My best mate found out several months into their relationship that his girlfriend's in a prominent uh, Harry Potter tribute band. Wizardcore or whatever it's called. One day it clicked with him that everyone in the Potter punk scene was basically living out the Fugazi dream in how they made and performed music, except basing an entire genre of music around children's books inevitably attracts an embarrassing clique of socially awkward folk you'd make your excuses to get away from.

Pliny Harris said:

High class act, what I wish punk would be more often. I've got only respect for those who live it sXe, whether deliberately or not, but I've already got a few pale ales on my desk right now waiting for the weekend.

Fugazi were better still for ethos. Putting the production of physical music into the musicians' hands, gig admission kept low by principle, in all ages venues by principle, accessible and empowering to all by principle. That must've been an ultimate aim of Mackaye's, to drive much more acts into adopting those ideas and make that the future of DIY music.

My best mate found out several months into their relationship that his girlfriend's in a prominent uh, Harry Potter tribute band. Wizardcore or whatever it's called. One day it clicked with him that everyone in the Potter punk scene was basically living out the Fugazi dream in how they made and performed music, except basing an entire genre of music around children's books inevitably attracts an embarrassing clique of socially awkward folk you'd make your excuses to get away from.

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Wizardcore ??!! Honestly sounds brilliant. You make such a great point about the legacy of minor threat/ fugazi. The all ages gigs and low prices meant so many more people could get into the scene . I've seen sick of it all , strife , shelter and countless others for basically fuck all . Wouldn't have been possible without mackaye and the rest of them .

In Leeds I was lucky to have the Brudenell Social Club and Wharf Chambers catering to my tastes, two non-profit venues where gigs were a couple of quid less than they'd normally be, no bouncers, kids were even knocking about during the beer festival at the latter just being kids. Tireless pushing from the likes of Fugazi and these ideas spread, and I'm seeing most of what I want to see for less than £10.

Dunno if it's actually called wizardcore. I think it was set up by a group called Harry and the Potters who made up several songs based on the books in the space of an hour to play in front of a few mates. Careful what you get into I guess.

I know brudenell social club well . Went to loads of gigs there and the packhorse . I loved living in Leeds . I worked in the duck and drake pub and every weekend and Thursday there would some weird folk or rock band on promoted by a fella who sold fake Native American shit in the market . I got paid fuck all , didn't mind though .

Tilbury said:

Never thought this would get any traction on the old forum but might as well give it a go on the new thing.
Anyone else a fan? Any era, any sub-genre, I love it all.

Start with the best album ever made.

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Did you mean the most overrated ever made.....think you did didn't you

Yo can people recommend me pop stuff like Gordon Gano's Army and The Ergs....?

(Would also be interested in slower stuff like the melvins or something.)

Tilbury said:

Never thought this would get any traction on the old forum but might as well give it a go on the new thing.
Anyone else a fan? Any era, any sub-genre, I love it all.

Start with the best album ever made.

Click to expand...

Fc me said:

Did you mean the most overrated ever made.....think you did didn't you

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They think they're so clever, they think they're so right / But the truth is only known by gutter snipes.

Compared to the dross released over the previous 5 years, they were a breath of fresh air. In context it was great if not best ever.

It was London Calling that drew me in to seeing the band as offering more than just rowdy songs like White Riot and London's Burning. As a stand alone album, The Clash might not deserve greatest - unless you were a teenager at the time. For me the equivalent was Hendrix, Zappa/Beefheart and Rory.

Have you seen what was on offer in 1974 - Genesis and Supertramp as top albums?? The top 50 singles were full of absolute dross but the next 50 were worse. No wonder we were still listening to Tatoo, Morrison Hotel and Ziggy Stardust. Thank God for the Feelgoods to get us through to 1977.

1. David Essex, Gonna Make You A Star
2. The Three Degrees, When Will I See You Again
3. Charles Aznavour, She
4. George McCrae, Rock Your Baby
5. Terry Jacks, Seasons In The Sun
6. Paper Lace Billy, Don't Be A Hero
7. Mud Tiger Feet
8. The Rubettes Sugar Baby Love
9. Ken Boothe Everything I Own
10. Carl Douglas Kung Fu Fighting
11. Barry White You're The First, The Last, My Everything
12. John Denver Annie's Song T
13. The Osmonds Love Me For A Reason
14. Suzi Quatro Devil Gate Drive
15. The Drifters Kissin' In The Back Row
16. Abba Waterloo
17. Showaddywaddy Hey Rock And Roll
18. The New Seekers You Won't Find Another Fool Like Me
19. The Stylistics You Make Me Feel Brand New
20. The Hollies The Air That I Breathe

This one's for D B Disco

And this one's for everyone -

Vanni said:

This one's for D B Disco

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Hey Vanni...........for future reference, THIS!!

Groovy track! Good proper old school punk type band

Really recommend the album this track is on, 24 Hour Revenge Therapy by Jawbreaker.

Random selection, the first being my favourite ever opening two track combo to a punk/hardcore album (video has the wrong album picture uploaded though)...

Pliny Harris said:

In Leeds I was lucky to have the Brudenell Social Club and Wharf Chambers catering to my tastes, two non-profit venues where gigs were a couple of quid less than they'd normally be, no bouncers, kids were even knocking about during the beer festival at the latter just being kids. Tireless pushing from the likes of Fugazi and these ideas spread, and I'm seeing most of what I want to see for less than £10.

Dunno if it's actually called wizardcore. I think it was set up by a group called Harry and the Potters who made up several songs based on the books in the space of an hour to play in front of a few mates. Careful what you get into I guess.

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Aber gas said:

I know brudenell social club well . Went to loads of gigs there and the packhorse . I loved living in Leeds . I worked in the duck and drake pub and every weekend and Thursday there would some weird folk or rock band on promoted by a fella who sold fake Native American shit in the market . I got paid fuck all , didn't mind though .

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When did you two live in Leeds? I was there from 2003-2011. Lived in several houses around Hyde Park during about five of those years, three of which were all just a few minutes away from the Brudenell. Royal Park Cellars and The Fenton were also good pub venues, along with The Packhorse. The king of them all has to be Joseph's Well, though. Great venue. Seen so many great bands in all of these venues.

Tilbury said:

Really recommend the album this track is on, 24 Hour Revenge Therapy by Jawbreaker.

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Yep. One of the most influential early emo albums.

Son of Cod said:

When did you two live in Leeds? I was there from 2003-2011. Lived in several houses around Hyde Park during about five of those years, three of which were all just a few minutes away from the Brudenell. Royal Park Cellars and The Fenton were also good pub venues, along with The Packhorse. The king of them all has to be Joseph's Well, though. Great venue. Seen so many great bands in all of these venues.

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2010-14. Some crossover! Lived in Hyde Park twice and by the Burley allotments twice. Prefer Burley, but obvs not its own venues (Burley Conservative Club is the roughest place I've ever been to). The Royal Park I never saw put on any gigs although I know it used to be a venue. I guess the Brudenell took its custom. The Well went in 2012 I think. I'm afraid I dunno what you saw in that venue as the bar only did the generic pints, the bogs were horrible and the main room itself not very good in terms of views for efficient, compact men like me. Wharf Chambers does class gigs now too, and tends to do stuff if it's cheap and left-leaning. Temple of Boom is making its way too which is dingy and chuffin' freezing. Then the Belgrave's competing with the Brude for indie bans but it's too hoity toity for me. Had a long argument with the bouncer there for trying to get in in a Town shirt and decided a place like that wasn't getting my custom, plus they put alcohol in their slush puppies which suxxx when you're cycling home after.

Pliny Harris said:

2010-14. Some crossover! Lived in Hyde Park twice and by the Burley allotments twice. Prefer Burley, but obvs not its own venues (Burley Conservative Club is the roughest place I've ever been to). The Royal Park I never saw put on any gigs although I know it used to be a venue. I guess the Brudenell took its custom. The Well went in 2012 I think. I'm afraid I dunno what you saw in that venue as the bar only did the generic pints, the bogs were horrible and the main room itself not very good in terms of views for efficient, compact men like me. Wharf Chambers does class gigs now too, and tends to do stuff if it's cheap and left-leaning. Temple of Boom is making its way too which is dingy and chuffin' freezing. Then the Belgrave's competing with the Brude for indie bans but it's too hoity toity for me. Had a long argument with the bouncer there for trying to get in in a Town shirt and decided a place like that wasn't getting my custom, plus they put alcohol in their slush puppies which suxxx when you're cycling home after.

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How about another weird crossover? Lived on Lumley Terrace (next to the allotments) for around 10 months in 1974/75 (I think). Worked at Yorkshire Chemicals on Kirkstall Road (toilet/drum cleaner, painter, general dogsbody) for around 8 months then got a job out at Lawnswood. Frequented the Liberal Club as well as the usual boozers. Happy memories of the Hyde Park and Packhorse (occasional visitor to the Brudenell and Royal Park) but very few gigs that year. Main memories are my mate's band being double booked with Wayne Fontana and the Mindbenders at the Fforde Green and another hairy trip out to Chapeltown to see them perform.

Son of Cod said:

Random selection, the first being my favourite ever opening two track combo to a punk/hardcore album (video has the wrong album picture uploaded though)...

When did you two live in Leeds? I was there from 2003-2011. Lived in several houses around Hyde Park during about five of those years, three of which were all just a few minutes away from the Brudenell. Royal Park Cellars and The Fenton were also good pub venues, along with The Packhorse. The king of them all has to be Joseph's Well, though. Great venue. Seen so many great bands in all of these venues.



Yep. One of the most influential early emo albums.

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I was in Leeds from 2001 to 2004 . Seriously great city for gigs and general going out . I'd forgotten about Joseph's well , seriously minging but some great nights there . Anybody remember a place called barrish in Hyde park . Sort of a curry house come late night bar ( bit of a hash cafe on the quiet ) it didn't have a booze license so in order to get a drink you would have to buy a raffle ticket which conveniently came with a free drink . Nobody ever won that fucking raffle !

So good I'm uploading two versions of this song -

Pliny Harris said:

2010-14. Some crossover! Lived in Hyde Park twice and by the Burley allotments twice. Prefer Burley, but obvs not its own venues (Burley Conservative Club is the roughest place I've ever been to). The Royal Park I never saw put on any gigs although I know it used to be a venue. I guess the Brudenell took its custom. The Well went in 2012 I think. I'm afraid I dunno what you saw in that venue as the bar only did the generic pints, the bogs were horrible and the main room itself not very good in terms of views for efficient, compact men like me. Wharf Chambers does class gigs now too, and tends to do stuff if it's cheap and left-leaning. Temple of Boom is making its way too which is dingy and chuffin' freezing. Then the Belgrave's competing with the Brude for indie bans but it's too hoity toity for me. Had a long argument with the bouncer there for trying to get in in a Town shirt and decided a place like that wasn't getting my custom, plus they put alcohol in their slush puppies which suxxx when you're cycling home after.

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Habbinalan said:

How about another weird crossover? Lived on Lumley Terrace (next to the allotments) for around 10 months in 1974/75 (I think). Worked at Yorkshire Chemicals on Kirkstall Road (toilet/drum cleaner, painter, general dogsbody) for around 8 months then got a job out at Lawnswood. Frequented the Liberal Club as well as the usual boozers. Happy memories of the Hyde Park and Packhorse (occasional visitor to the Brudenell and Royal Park) but very few gigs that year. Main memories are my mate's band being double booked with Wayne Fontana and the Mindbenders at the Fforde Green and another hairy trip out to Chapeltown to see them perform.

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Are you both on about Burley Liberal Club? At the end of the Hyde Park/Burley end of Cardigan Road? On the cross road? That place used to be awesome. Proper Leeds folk in the bar half enjoying their Friday/Saturday night pints and then a banging gabba/techno/jungle night going on in the function room with loads of pilled up/k-holed ravers, students and crusty hippies. Chapeltown, too? Did anyone ever go to Subdub at The West Indian Centre, or Chapeltown Carnival?

I'm with you that the bar at Joseph's Well was nothing special and the bogs were shit, but neither of those things really bother when I'm watching bands. I thought the main room where the bands played was the appeal of it though. Seen so many great bands there and they used to attract such a high calibre of music there for the size of it. Loved that room when it was packed out and sweaty as hell. Used to go to a three day punk all weekender there called Out of Spite that was particularly good. With you on The Belgrave though, I went there when I was back in Leeds last summer. Not for a gig but just for a drink. It's cool as a bar, but ridiculously hipster. Any bar that sells over priced pizza by the slice shouldn't be hosting gigs, in my opinion.

Aber gas said:

I was in Leeds from 2001 to 2004 . Seriously great city for gigs and general going out . I'd forgotten about Joseph's well , seriously minging but some great nights there . Anybody remember a place called barrish in Hyde park . Sort of a curry house come late night bar ( bit of a hash cafe on the quiet ) it didn't have a booze license so in order to get a drink you would have to buy a raffle ticket which conveniently came with a free drink . Nobody ever won that fucking raffle !

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Was it on the corner opposite the Royal Park? A sheeshah/hookah bar? The Moroccan restaurant? Wasn't it called Barakah? If so, I also used to love that place. Also remember it being kind of cool to smoke weed upstairs in there too. There was another smaller one called Moorish up Royal Park Road over the road from called Hyde Park if you turned left at the top.

Really miss the music/partying scene in Leeds. With meaning to derail the punk thread, I could talk about this for a while, still loads of cool venues that haven't been mentioned! Lots of happy memories. With that in mind though, I'll post a song from one of my favourite Leeds bands (even has a reference to The Packhorse for Habbinalan)...

Son of Cod said:

Are you both on about Burley Liberal Club? At the end of the Hyde Park/Burley end of Cardigan Road? On the cross road? That place used to be awesome. Proper Leeds folk in the bar half enjoying their Friday/Saturday night pints and then a banging gabba/techno/jungle night going on in the function room with loads of pilled up/k-holed ravers, students and crusty hippies. Chapeltown, too? Did anyone ever go to Subdub at The West Indian Centre, or Chapeltown Carnival?

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Son of Cod said:

.........a song from one of my favourite Leeds bands (even has a reference to The Packhorse for Habbinalan)...

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It would be the Burley Liberal Club, I think, just up from Yorks TV and a brisk walk from the factory, although our lunch time pub was a Tetley's up a street directly opposite the entrance ( all the roads have changed now). The Liberal Club was a classic Workingmen's Club in those days - no "ladies" to stand at the bar, given a half-pint glass to decant their pints and not allowed on the snooker tables. The function room was standard comedians, crooners and novelties (only went a couple of weekend nights for the experience). I was one of the earlier era crusty hippies until I got fed up with getting the paint out of my hair - we had quite a few paint fights when we got bored.

The Packhorse was either folk nights (I bought Martin Carthy a pint when I bumped into him at the bar as my celebrity moment) or just a decent boozer - my mate was in lodgings (yes lodgings with a proper landlady) in a house behind there for his first year at Uni. I was at Reading but visited occasionally (highlights included Jethro Tull in their pomp at the Uni as a follow up to the Who at Reading for our freshers week), then moved up to Leeds for the year after (4 up back to back for £6/week) for a year out of chasing my tail - cheap living easy to get a job.

Punk wasn't even a twinkle in the eye in those years - although, whilst at Reading, I did catch Ian Dury in Kilburn and the Highroads and, of course the Feelgoods with Wilko and Lee Brilleaux.

Son of Cod said:

Are you both on about Burley Liberal Club? At the end of the Hyde Park/Burley end of Cardigan Road? On the cross road? That place used to be awesome. Proper Leeds folk in the bar half enjoying their Friday/Saturday night pints and then a banging gabba/techno/jungle night going on in the function room with loads of pilled up/k-holed ravers, students and crusty hippies. Chapeltown, too? Did anyone ever go to Subdub at The West Indian Centre, or Chapeltown Carnival?

I'm with you that the bar at Joseph's Well was nothing special and the bogs were shit, but neither of those things really bother when I'm watching bands. I thought the main room where the bands played was the appeal of it though. Seen so many great bands there and they used to attract such a high calibre of music there for the size of it. Loved that room when it was packed out and sweaty as hell. Used to go to a three day punk all weekender there called Out of Spite that was particularly good. With you on The Belgrave though, I went there when I was back in Leeds last summer. Not for a gig but just for a drink. It's cool as a bar, but ridiculously hipster. Any bar that sells over priced pizza by the slice shouldn't be hosting gigs, in my opinion.


Was it on the corner opposite the Royal Park? A sheeshah/hookah bar? The Moroccan restaurant? Wasn't it called Barakah? If so, I also used to love that place. Also remember it being kind of cool to smoke weed upstairs in there too. There was another smaller one called Moorish up Royal Park Road over the road from called Hyde Park if you turned left at the top.

Really miss the music/partying scene in Leeds. With meaning to derail the punk thread, I could talk about this for a while, still loads of cool venues that haven't been mentioned! Lots of happy memories. With that in mind though, I'll post a song from one of my favourite Leeds bands (even has a reference to The Packhorse for Habbinalan)...

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Yeah it was called Barakah . I was mixing it up with a rubbish bar by the station .

About time this thread was bumped back to the first page!

The brilliant Dirt Box Disco....

Habbinalan said:

They think they're so clever, they think they're so right / But the truth is only known by gutter snipes.

Compared to the dross released over the previous 5 years, they were a breath of fresh air. In context it was great if not best ever.

It was London Calling that drew me in to seeing the band as offering more than just rowdy songs like White Riot and London's Burning. As a stand alone album, The Clash might not deserve greatest - unless you were a teenager at the time. For me the equivalent was Hendrix, Zappa/Beefheart and Rory.

Have you seen what was on offer in 1974 - Genesis and Supertramp as top albums?? The top 50 singles were full of absolute dross but the next 50 were worse. No wonder we were still listening to Tatoo, Morrison Hotel and Ziggy Stardust. Thank God for the Feelgoods to get us through to 1977.

1. David Essex, Gonna Make You A Star
2. The Three Degrees, When Will I See You Again
3. Charles Aznavour, She
4. George McCrae, Rock Your Baby
5. Terry Jacks, Seasons In The Sun
6. Paper Lace Billy, Don't Be A Hero
7. Mud Tiger Feet
8. The Rubettes Sugar Baby Love
9. Ken Boothe Everything I Own
10. Carl Douglas Kung Fu Fighting
11. Barry White You're The First, The Last, My Everything
12. John Denver Annie's Song T
13. The Osmonds Love Me For A Reason
14. Suzi Quatro Devil Gate Drive
15. The Drifters Kissin' In The Back Row
16. Abba Waterloo
17. Showaddywaddy Hey Rock And Roll
18. The New Seekers You Won't Find Another Fool Like Me
19. The Stylistics You Make Me Feel Brand New
20. The Hollies The Air That I Breathe

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Every one of that list of 20 has a memory for me. Wasn't all bad, just the music of the times. Those mid 70s were difficult times for many in Britain. Punk - and to a degree, reggae - was great because for the first time, politics was brought into music and lyrics stopped being saccharine. And nothing wrong with Genesis or Supertramp...each to their own.

Probably a long shot but anyone else remember the Tin Can Club in Digbeth, the Rum Runner up on Broad Street or the Powerhouse? Good days for music venues in central Birmingham back in the early to mid 80s.