Should we bomb Isis in Syria?

Dr Mantis Toboggan · Nov 28, 2015

the paris attacks would have been better, or more understandable and justifiable, if the terrorists targeted policemen, politicians or military figures. they could have had civilian casualties, but targeting combatants/the state and having collateral damage is far different to targeting civilians straight up

Womble98 · Nov 28, 2015

Techno Natch said:
They had little concern for the potential of civilian casualties though. Personally I doubt they gave a shit and that possibly makes it just bad as the Paris attacks.

I don't see you can't see there not being a difference between negligence and 100% deliberate targeted attacks. Both are immensely wrong, but there is a difference.

Techno Natch · Nov 28, 2015

Yeah I don't necessarily believe it but I'm honestly not sure how big a difference there is when our forces sometimes show scant concern for civilian lives.

As I said the people hit by it probably won't give a shit about the difference.

If I remember rightly you were pretty outraged by Israel's attacks on Palestine and used some pretty strong words about it. So what's the difference? Unless I have the wrong person.

Womble98 · Nov 28, 2015

Techno Natch said:
Yeah I don't necessarily believe it but I'm honestly not sure how big a difference there is when our forces sometimes show scant concern for civilian lives.

As I said the people hit by it probably won't give a shit about the difference.

If I remember rightly you were pretty outraged by Israel's attacks on Palestine and used some pretty strong words about it. So what's the difference? Unless I have the wrong person.

I am pretty outraged by this attack on the hospital, and I believe like Israel's actions, it should be brought before an international criminal court to determine if wrongdoing was done and prosecute the offenders.

Red · Nov 28, 2015

Abertawe said:
No. Without a combined effort from multiple nations (Russia included) backed by the UN it'd counter productive. We need to work logically based on a common goal. Put aside the Assad right to power issue for the moment and have all eyes focused fully on annihilating the Islamic Caliphate. Boots on the ground from all nations, I'm talking circa 150,000 pairs of boots backed by airstrikes and military weaponry. This isn't going to be resolved by haphazard airstrikes in an uncoordinated manner. Go hard or stay at home essentially.

This. I'd add that there has to be a cogent exit strategy as well.

Dr Mantis Toboggan · Nov 28, 2015

'put aside the assad .. issue'. putting aside the middle east's most brutal dictator. putting aside the man who started this. putting aside the fact that we'd be assisting him, what an utter betrayal of the people of syria. u can't sideline and team up with the man running the torture/death camps. this ain't ww2 where we had to team up with uncle joe, we have fucking options here. all this talk of death cults and y'all are advocating we team up with the michelangelo of warcrimes. a man who gassed his own people. any talk of any co-ordination with assad is disgusting, he needs to go

and a 'cogent exit strategy'. that's not up to us. u can't timetable an occupation, literally the worst thing for the middle east, up there with saudi arabia running out of oil, is what u suggested. my god it'd end terribly

Freakyteeth · Nov 29, 2015

The left in this country are hilarious

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-star-called-open-peace-talks-terrorists.html

So glad I'm a card carrying member of the monster raving looney party where common sense and logic are more readily applied.

Red · Nov 29, 2015

departed user said:
The left in this country are hilarious

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-star-called-open-peace-talks-terrorists.html

So glad I'm a card carrying member of the monster raving looney party where common sense and logic are more readily applied.

Ahhhhh the Day Fail. Balanced and objective reportage you can always depend on.

A lot of people said the Ira couldn't be reasoned with, but the Thatcher and Major governments made progress by negotiating. Unfortunately I don't think ISIS are open to diplomacy though

Dr Mantis Toboggan · Nov 29, 2015

what made u think that was it their execution of journalists or their habit of executing negotiators

Stevencc · Nov 29, 2015

I
Shall
Ignore
Speaking

Don't
Anyone
Even
Speak
Heathens

mistermagic · Nov 29, 2015

Doesn't really matter if the UK help us bombing Syria. We can barely afford to bomb it and need lots of financial help from our "dear, dear friends".
There'll be collateral damage. This is war.

smat · Nov 29, 2015

Quite surprised by how few idks there are. Where do you yeses and nos get your senses of certainty about this from??

Tilbury · Nov 29, 2015

Yes we should bomb isis. But not when there is a risk to civilians and I'm not sure how possible that is. Difficult.

Dr Mantis Toboggan · Nov 29, 2015

im
possible

daesh use slaves in a lot of non-combative battlefield roles. u attack a defensive firing position u kill a lot of slave labour

JaredSUFC · Nov 29, 2015

MorDon said:
Do you really think they need any more illogical motive? These nutters have enough, Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel. Civilians casualties are happening because we are not bombing IS. Christians are being massacred, Shia are being massacred, told to change their faith or die.

Er, IS are being bombed already. Just not by the UK in Syria.

Womble98 · Nov 29, 2015

JaredSUFC said:
Er, IS are being bombed already. Just not by the UK in Syria.

And where we are bombing them we are driving them back. The efforts in Kobane allowed the Kurds to hold the city. We can now help pile the pressure on by bombing them.

Dr Mantis Toboggan · Nov 29, 2015

yeah it should be tactical bombing in support of kurdish and rebel force movements. not a straight up war on daesh

AFCB_Mark · Nov 30, 2015

Ian said:
yeah it should be tactical bombing in support of kurdish and rebel force movements. not a straight up war on daesh

Indeed.

We are already bombing them in Iraq, and we already have our jets flying over Syria every day as it is, just holding fire and only doing recon work for everyone else. In reality our contribution of 8 jets isn't a significantly tangible step compared to the numbers the US, France, and Russia (depending what they're aiming at) can bring to bear. Also Jordan. But if we are in a situation to support ground forces (who need to be a coalition of forces from the region, as much of a challenge as that is) with a continuation of strikes over the border, then I think we should do.

I certainly wouldn't support a George W Bush 'bomb everything that moves in Baghdad' style operation for Raqqa. That'd be horrendous.

Red · Nov 30, 2015

If we are going to bomb ISIS it's imperative that whoever is in charge of operations is not dyslexic as this might lead to the obliteration of the IBIS hotel chain.

smat · Nov 30, 2015

Red said:
If we are going to bomb ISIS it's imperative that whoever is in charge of operations is not dyslexic as this might lead to the obliteration of the IBIS hotel chain.

One of my friends was killed in a hotel so forgive me if I don't find this particularly fucking funny.

HertsWolf · Nov 30, 2015

Red said:
If we are going to bomb ISIS it's imperative that whoever is in charge of operations is not dyslexic as this might lead to the obliteration of the IBIS hotel chain.

There's a risk they might bomb Oxford, tbh.

JaredSUFC · Nov 30, 2015

MorDon said:
And where we are bombing them we are driving them back. The efforts in Kobane allowed the Kurds to hold the city. We can now help pile the pressure on by bombing them.

But is bombing them destroying them as an organisation? That events of the last year would suggest no

Dave-Vale · Nov 30, 2015

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...y-corbyn-gives-labour-mps-free-vote?CMP=fb_gu

Looks like we will be bombing Syria.

AFCB_Mark · Nov 30, 2015

Given Corbyn's voting record, it seems only correct that Corbyn allows his MPs to vote freely and doesn't impose the whip.

In fact matters of the military shouldn't be whipped at all for any party, they're too important for party politics.

silkyman · Nov 30, 2015

I've read that this is a leadership crisis for Corbyn as he can't guarantee that his party will vote in his preferred way.

But don't the Torys have an overall majority? Surely they shouldn't NEED to court Labour MPs?

Unless Hameron is also having a 'leadership crisis')

Or some other reason, I'm not aware of.

Dr Mantis Toboggan · Nov 30, 2015

JaredSUFC said:
But is bombing them destroying them as an organisation? That events of the last year would suggest no

since when has brute force ever defeated terrorism, serious question

Womble98 · Nov 30, 2015

silkyman said:
I've read that this is a leadership crisis for Corbyn as he can't guarantee that his party will vote in his preferred way.

But don't the Torys have an overall majority? Surely they shouldn't NEED to court Labour MPs?

Unless Hameron is also having a 'leadership crisis')

Or some other reason, I'm not aware of.

Tory right-wingers i.e. rees-mogg don't want to intervene.

HertsWolf · Nov 30, 2015

Ian said:
since when has brute force ever defeated terrorism, serious question

You need an answer for that?

HertsWolf · Nov 30, 2015

silkyman said:
I've read that this is a leadership crisis for Corbyn as he can't guarantee that his party will vote in his preferred way.

But don't the Torys have an overall majority? Surely they shouldn't NEED to court Labour MPs?

Unless Hameron is also having a 'leadership crisis')

Or some other reason, I'm not aware of.

Admit I was intrigued to read the Mail on Saturday to see they weren't supporting bombing. Wasn't expecting that. Thought the Mail would have been sponsoring individual bombs. Maybe that's more of a Sun thing though.

silkyman · Nov 30, 2015

MorDon said:
Tory right-wingers i.e. rees-mogg don't want to intervene.

Leadership Crisis for Cameron

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