The General England Euro 2016 Thread

silkyman · Nov 16, 2015

G.B said:
I'm being completely fair. He plays as an extremely attacking wideman, usually in a front 3 when he's not out of the team for being completely ineffective, yet he rarely scores or assits. 5 league goals in 4 years. Yep he's fast, good for him. So is Lennon. Neither are international standard footballers nor do they have any real end product. He's a brainless athlete. Exactly the sort of shite we persist with though tbf, so in that sense he's not a bad shout.

We don't have/ever produce wide players capable of playing intelligent football. This a country that spent the best part of a decade whinging about having no left winger. The simple solution would have been, and still is, to play to our strengths, ie. a system that doesn't require wingers. Instead we shoehorned in the likes of Joe Cole and went to a world cup with Trevor fucking Sinclair as our primary winger. The best wideman we've produced in my lifetime couldn't run for shit, but he was excellent technically and was always one of our standout players. England has loads of smart footballers but we're still obsessed with pace and power. You'd think after constantly being shit on by teams who lack both those attributes, but field good technical footballers, we'd learn a lesson. I'm struggling to think of a good national team that line up with a couple of whippets on either flank tbh, it's simply not necessary and very much an outdated concept.

What are we going to counter though? The good teams aren't stupid enough to throw 8 men forward, completely lose their structure and leave huge gaps in behind to be exploited. It's not the same as our mindless "back to front as quick as you can, lads" domestic game, it's a completely different style of football. And it wouldn't matter if they did 'cause the likes of Lennon and Zaha would consistently make the wrong decisions when they have the ball anyway.

The national team set up is an utter joke.

All of that is probably right, but the point was really whether some lad who started eight times for the side that finished 8th in the championship last season should be getting a call up just because he bagged one goal for United. (And yes, see also Dele Alli). It's not quite 'Theo Walcott in 2006' levels, but not a million miles away!

silkyman · Nov 16, 2015

Leewilson said:
Rooney has still shown no signs of life. Kane for me looks very promising but he really needs to show more composure in front of goal for England. In the U21s during the summer, he was shoot on sight. He was a bit similar against Spain, rushing his shots, not having that calm head. I do worry slightly he may be a bit burnt out by the summer. Vardy needs to maintain his form all the way to the summer really although and if he can do that, then there is no doubt that he should start.

One issue Kane must have is your first word there. Rooney. You've been to pre season games and seen players on trial. They snatch at things, try too hard, and sometimes fuck up because of it. Because they have that extra layer of pressure. Kane, and every other player to come along as a striker for England has basically been, at best on trial and at worst on an absolute hiding to nothing. Kane gets the odd sub and even rarer and actual game and knows 'you've GOT to perform, NOW, or they'll just go with the safe option.'

Otherwise you get written off as 'not international class' and discarded for the next one. Rooney isn't the man to lead the line anymore, so tell Kane and Vardy that its between them. Not having the shadow of an undroppable hanging over them will help them both.

AFCB_Mark · Nov 16, 2015

In an ideal world, I'd like us to build a team around our best player Sterling, and having him in a 'number 10' type position, putting him at the hub of things. But I don't really think that would best fit the other players we have. Perhaps one for the future that.

So as it is I think sticking him on the left is the next best thing, and hopefully playing alongside a central player who has the intelligence and creativity to swap positions and roam a little - Barkley. With Sterling Barkley and either Ox/Walcott they can all interchange and all find different pockets.

Vardy or Kane for the centre forward, a different type of forward for different requirements. And its not often we can say that.

Rooney comes on from the bench, and could provide some intimidation by reputation and suck defenders towards him, creating space for others. But we cannot justify starting him any longer.

Pace and unpredictability is going to be our (only) friend against a really good side. Hell half the time we don't even know what we're doing ourselves, so how would the opposition know to setup against the likes of Sterling Vardy Walcott etc.

At best they'd have to defend deep, which would give the midfield the best chance of actually keeping the ball for more than 4 passes. Shock horror.

Henderson, Wilshere if he's ever fit, Milner if he isn't, and Barkley as I say. Not a huge fan of Delph, not sure what he offers aside from effort. Carrick I like but sadly think he's struggling. Shelvey is worth more of a look.

At the back a partnership of Smalling and Stones would seem obvious to me based on current form. Jones keeps getting picked for some reason, and I don't deny he can be a decent player, but shouldn't be first choice. Cahill is having a horrid season and could be shattered mentally by the time the summer rolls around.

Clyne at right back is obvious. On the left, Bertrand I do like, however I'd worry a left side of him and Sterling would be a bit open. I'm open to being convinced otherwise, but I'd lean towards Baines at the mo as being a little more solid behind Sterling.

G.B · Nov 16, 2015

silkyman said:
All of that is probably right, but the point was really whether some lad who started eight times for the side that finished 8th in the championship last season should be getting a call up just because he bagged one goal for United. (And yes, see also Dele Alli). It's not quite 'Theo Walcott in 2006' levels, but not a million miles away!

No, I agree. It's ridiculous he's been callled up.

Nilsson · Nov 16, 2015

Big up yourself Lingard. He's scored a goal for the biggest club in the world so that alone means he's good enough for fucking England. He can't play any worse than Sterling or Barkley did against Spain, that's for sure.

Madejski · Nov 16, 2015

A few good comments about people's ideas for the national team.

My input would be that you always hear about the best teams are able to know their strengths and exploit them. Then you always hear about how the Prem is a fast paced, high energy league. So why when all of our players are used to this do we play slow, boring, possession football? Surely we should play fast attacking football, high energy, quick closing down, and play to our strengths. It might not be what the best international teams are doing right now, but maybe they don't have the players to make it work?

JJH · Nov 17, 2015

Rooney on the left tonight, Lallana on the right on Friday. I don't think Hodgson is to blame at all, he can only manage what he gets given, but he's making a rod for his own back by playing this formation which isn't accommodating the best players we have, and his persistence with putting square pegs in round holes isn't going to help him in the long term.

SALTIRE · Nov 17, 2015

Nilsson said:
Big up yourself Lingard. He's scored a goal for the biggest club in the world so that alone means he's good enough for fucking England. He can't play any worse than Sterling or Barkley did against Spain, that's for sure.

He doesn't play for Real Madrid, only for Manchester's second team.

Ciderhead · Nov 17, 2015

JJH said:
Rooney on the left tonight, Lallana on the right on Friday. I don't think Hodgson is to blame at all, he can only manage what he gets given, but he's making a rod for his own back by playing this formation which isn't accommodating the best players we have, and his persistence with putting square pegs in round holes isn't going to help him in the long term.

I'd say 433 is the formation that bests suits us at present actually. Agree with the several very good posts above that all have us in that shape.

It's not Hodgson's fault Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain are both injured at present, and changing system to accommodate for a few short term injuries wouldn't make much sense, it's all about planning ahead for the Euros, sticking with and getting used to a way of playing

JackInTheBox · Nov 18, 2015

^^ Reply to this post as I really like your post. I went into serious depth here;
http://www.onefootballforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/englands-future-national-team.8386/

I'm happy to post again however.

My starting 11 would be, either in the formation of 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 but the players wouldn't change really...

GK - Hart
RB - Clyne
CB - Smalling
CB - Stones
LB - Shaw (whilst injured Cresswell (25) > Bertrand, call me bias I don't care, but AC has been on form last season and for the majority of this season).
CM - Dier
CM - Alli
CAM - Barkley
RW - Ox
LW - Sterling
ST - Kane

Average age: 22, so "on average" this team could compete in Euro '16, WC '18, Euro '20 and WC '22 and still have an average age of 29 at WC '22. Ridiclous potential! If you wanna drop Hart (28) and bring in Butland, you're looking at an average age of 21.5.

I've not even thought about bench players or injured players yet; Wilshere (23), Jones (23), Walker (25), Shelvey (23), Mason (24), Henderson (25)

When you look at the team we could have in depth coming through the ranks in the future too (I'm commenting on players I've seen or know a little bit about here);
Calum Chambers (20) - RB/CB
Reece Oxford (16) - CB (as we have plenty of CDM's available)
Joe Gomez (18) - CB/RB/LB (providing he bounces back from his injury well)
Matt Targett (20) - LB
Brendan Galloway (19) - LB
James Ward-Prowse (21) - CM
Jake Forster-Caskey (21) - CM
Ruben Loftus Cheek (19) - CM
Will Hughes (20) - CM
Nathan Redmon (21) - RW/LW
Duncan Watmore (21) - RW/LW
Jordan Ibe (19) - RW/LW
Jesse Lingard (22) - RW/LW
Dominic Solanke (18) - ST

Hope you like my thoughts/comments.

Leewilson · Jan 23, 2016

Leewilson said:
Interesting to look back at old posts and see how things pan out.

Here's a revised version now we're into November:

Goalkeeper and defence:

Hart will and should retain the number 1 spot despite Butland's excellent form. Shaw's injury at left back is a real shame but I like Bertrand and feel he'd be a good replacement. I still get the impression we'll go with Baines when he's fully fit though. Regarding CB, I have to backtrack. Smalling has been superb and deserves a spot. I think Cahill will get the 2nd although with the way he's playing at present, I'd actually go Stones and build that partnership. Clyne at RB still for me.

The 3 in the middle

I'm struggling with this position, just as I think we're getting a settled 3, injuries or poor displays happen. Carrick looked way off it against Spain and his lack of first team football at United along with the injury he now has and my gut feeling is that it isn't going to happen for him. I thought Milner moving to Liverpool would reinvigorate him in the middle but he's dropped off and his performances have been a bit underwhelming. Henderson has offered more in the past 2 years when fit. I still maintain Wilshere or Barkley should be the third choice in a more advanced role behind the striker. Barkley has a lot of talent but his decision making is still very suspect. A fit Wilshere takes it for me. Finally, fuck it, since we don't have any real stand outs in this area, let's give Eric Dier a go in the DM role. He's having a very good season at Spurs. We need protection in the CM area. Why not eh.

Wide areas

No changes here. Sterling plays with Ox or Walcott on the other side. The latter two need to play more ideally or I can see someone like Vardy being shoved out there.

Up front

Rooney has still shown no signs of life. Kane for me looks very promising but he really needs to show more composure in front of goal for England. In the U21s during the summer, he was shoot on sight. He was a bit similar against Spain, rushing his shots, not having that calm head. I do worry slightly he may be a bit burnt out by the summer. Vardy needs to maintain his form all the way to the summer really although and if he can do that, then there is no doubt that he should start.

Hart

Clyne - Stones - Smalling - Bertrand

Dier
Henderson - Wilshere
Ox/Walcott -------------------------------- Sterling
Kane

Two months on.

I'd keep the back 5 the same. Dier is the best holding midfielder we have. Henderson alongside him makes sense. Probably jumping on the hype a bit but Dele Alli for me should be unleashed. Wilshere is the wildcard as god knows what state his fitness will be come June.

Ox has been terrible this season so I can't include him at present. Walcott needs a strong end to the season to cement his spot.

---------------------Hart

Clyne - Stones - Smalling - Bertrand

-----------Dier-----Henderson-----------

Walcott------------Alli----------Sterling

-------------------Kane---------------------

JimJams · Jan 23, 2016

No Vardy, Lee? You sir are a disgrace.

GodsGift · Jan 23, 2016

That looks like a weak side. I'd rather go with:

Hart

Clyne
Stones
Smalling
Gibbs/Baines

Wilshere/Henderson
Barkley/Alli

Walcott/Welbeck
Rooney
Sterling

Kane

/ = whichever player is fit/in form

Leewilson · Jan 23, 2016

GodsGift said:
That looks like a weak side. I'd rather go with:

Hart

Clyne
Stones
Smalling
Gibbs/Baines

Wilshere/Henderson
Barkley/Alli

Walcott/Welbeck
Rooney
Sterling

Kane

/ = whichever player is fit/in form

Your team isn't much different from mine. I wouldn't choose Gibbs at left back. Baines is a fair enough call. I wouldn't have Barkley or Alli playing as deep as that. Rooney's form this season doesn't merit inclusion.

The rest is the same.

JimJams · Jan 23, 2016

Go 4-4-2 you slags!

Hart
Clyne - Smallng - Stones - Shaw/Gibbs
Walcott - Henderson - Alli - Sterling
Vardy - Kane

We'd rip the absolute piss!

HarvSFC · Jan 23, 2016

I'd have Ryan Bertrand.

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SamScfc · Jan 24, 2016

Was thinking the other day how Roy will probably fuck up possibly the best young squad we've had in a while and go:

Hart

Clyne - Smalling - Cahill - Baines

Henderson - Wilshere

Walcott - Rooney - Welbeck

Kane

When really we should be going

Hart

Clyne - Stones - Smalling - Shaw/Cresswell

Dier

Alli - Henderson

Sterling/Barkley

Kane - Vardy

Embrace the future!

Wouldn't put Alli in a midfield 2 at all, he didn't play there MK and doesn't play there for Spurs.

DippyDon · Jan 25, 2016

SamScfc said:
Was thinking the other day how Roy will probably fuck up possibly the best young squad we've had in a while and go:

Hart

Clyne - Smalling - Cahill - Baines

Henderson - Wilshere

Walcott - Rooney - Welbeck

Kane

When really we should be going

Hart

Clyne - Stones - Smalling - Shaw/Cresswell

Dier

Alli - Henderson

Sterling/Barkley

Kane - Vardy

Embrace the future!

Wouldn't put Alli in a midfield 2 at all, he didn't play there MK and doesn't play there for Spurs.

Alli only played in a midfield 2 at MK, when he played as an attacking mid last season he was terrible

Anaconda · Jan 31, 2016

If he continues to play like this he should start for England but i think Hodgson will play it safe again and stick to the usual suspects

JJ1532 · Jan 31, 2016

When you look at the group of players we have, looking at what Hodgson will likely get to pick from for the Euros doesn't make for inspiring reading.

We have loads of players out with injuries and then another bunch lacking form. Behind Vardy and Kane, we don't have many natural forwards that are either fit or in decent form. Dier and Alli may be having good seasons for Spurs, but they are complete novices to the England senior team, same with Stones pretty much. Yeah, I'd be happy to blood them at the Euros, but there isn't much in the way of alternatives if they lose form of get injured themselves.

Hodgson might be able to field a competitive first XI, but behind that, it doesn't make for pleasant reading.

Ebeneezer Goode · Feb 1, 2016

I don't think Dele Alli has done anything to warrant being selected over Barkley. He's scored fewer goals in more games this season, he has less experience, lower pass completion, fewer assists etc. etc. I think he's only being mentioned because he's the new breakout star of the season and he scored a worldie.

Reaper · Feb 4, 2016

I think our strongest possible 11 when everybody is fit would be

Hart
Clyne - Stones - Smalling - Shaw
Dier - Wilshere
Walcott - Barkley - Rooney
Sturridge

With young talent coming off the bench like Alli, Sterling, Kane and the OX

JJ1532 · Feb 4, 2016

Ebeneezer Goode said:
I don't think Dele Alli has done anything to warrant being selected over Barkley. He's scored fewer goals in more games this season, he has less experience, lower pass completion, fewer assists etc. etc. I think he's only being mentioned because he's the new breakout star of the season and he scored a worldie.

I think you are being overly harsh on Alli. Why not make it a fair comparison and look at their 19/20 year old seasons:

Alli(15-16): 19 PL apps, 7 goals.
Barkley(12-13): 7 PL apps, 0 goals. 2 Champ loan spells.

He is easily outshining the 19 year old Barkley, scored on his full England debut(a screamer no less), has And he isn't just getting noticed because of his goal against Palace, take a look at his goal against Everton. Superb. His goal against France, just as good. Yeah, he may have inferior stats to Barkley, but I'd argue that Barkley is finally, after a couple of poor years, producing the kind of form expected of him. Alli is outperforming all expectations and he's 3 years younger than Barkley. Don't overlook that fact. Very few players perform the way Alli has as a 19 year old. Obviously he has a long way to go yet, but I think you are being very harsh on him.

I do kind of agree with your point that Barkley is probably the go to guy for the starting XI at the moment, but maybe there is a way to accommodate both?

JimJams · Feb 4, 2016

I've decided Drinkwater should be in. The young pretenders can fuck off.

Who Needs Mourinho · Feb 4, 2016

JJ1532 said:
I think you are being overly harsh on Alli. Why not make it a fair comparison and look at their 19/20 year old seasons:

Alli(15-16): 19 PL apps, 7 goals.
Barkley(12-13): 7 PL apps, 0 goals. 2 Champ loan spells.

He is easily outshining the 19 year old Barkley, scored on his full England debut(a screamer no less), has And he isn't just getting noticed because of his goal against Palace, take a look at his goal against Everton. Superb. His goal against France, just as good. Yeah, he may have inferior stats to Barkley, but I'd argue that Barkley is finally, after a couple of poor years, producing the kind of form expected of him. Alli is outperforming all expectations and he's 3 years younger than Barkley. Don't overlook that fact. Very few players perform the way Alli has as a 19 year old. Obviously he has a long way to go yet, but I think you are being very harsh on him.

I do kind of agree with your point that Barkley is probably the go to guy for the starting XI at the moment, but maybe there is a way to accommodate both?

Personally I think Alli is better utilised from slightly deeper than Barkley but I'm guessing Rooney will be played behind Kane so that means only one of them will start I should imagine. It wouldn't be surprised if neither of them start and Roy goes for Henderson but I hope not.

Ebeneezer Goode · Feb 4, 2016

JJ1532 said:
I think you are being overly harsh on Alli. Why not make it a fair comparison and look at their 19/20 year old seasons:

Alli(15-16): 19 PL apps, 7 goals.
Barkley(12-13): 7 PL apps, 0 goals. 2 Champ loan spells.

That's not really a fair comparison when the question is who should start for England, not who will become the better player. Hodgson seems to favour one holding player this time around so they could both conceivably play anyway.

T.A · Feb 5, 2016

Hart

Clyde Smalling Stones/Cahill Baines

Dier Ali/Barkley Henderson

Sterling Kane Rooney

Still undecided on a couple of positions I'd rather have Cahil at the back with Smalling as he's more experienced however he doesn't seem to be getting a game at the moment. Ali and Barkley are both fantastic young players and I wouldn't mind either tbh

No Wilshere or Walcott in the team due to lack of game time. Not sure I'd take him at all but I haven't thought that ahead.

Ebeneezer Goode · Feb 5, 2016

Only fielding 10 players?

Bold.

Who Needs Mourinho · Feb 6, 2016

Ebeneezer Goode said:
Only fielding 10 players?

Bold.

Count again :lol:

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The General England Euro 2016 Thread

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