The Religion Thread

Tivvyultras · Jan 7, 2016

as a Quaker I disagree not All religon is bad

Alty · Jan 7, 2016

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35244444

Thoughts?

What happens when Ramadan falls slap bang in the middle of exam season?

Ebeneezer Goode · Jan 7, 2016

I don't think religion should be given special consideration.

silkyman · Jan 8, 2016

Perhaps religion needs to give life special consideration.

blade1889 · Jan 8, 2016

Initial knee jerk reaction was that's absolutely ridiculous. Mainly because I dont really understand religion coming from a completely unreligious starting point.

Now I'd argue theres nothing wrong with it. School children be them atheists/christians/muslims/jews etc. do not lose anything by then all having their exams at a time outside of Ramadan. We, as a country, lose nothing. All we do (whilst I'm ranting about tolerance on another thread) is accentuate that Muslim or British doesn't have to be a choice, we're not forcing you into choosing between school exams or practicing your faith...cos, well, why should we? What do we gain from it?

silkyman · Jan 8, 2016

Depends on what lead time we have? Does moving the exams now reduce revision time for kids who were geared up to have the exam on a certain date. Does it plonk a new exam in between others? Arrange this stuff from the start, if you really must, don't come along and try and change things later.

If fasting is part of your religion, then it falls on you if it causes you problems.

blade1889 · Jan 8, 2016

As far as I can tell it was moved before exam timetables were published so moving it accordingly has no negative effect...children havent been told they have an exam on 'x date' then it has been changed, which i agree would be unfair preparation on behalf of the government. And all pupils have exams at the same time, as we use percentages achieving certain marks to work put the UMS score that ultimately determines grades it doesn't make a difference. e.g. Exams are brought forward a week = same for all pupils = average of 5% less on raw score = UMS adjusted accordingly so top 10% of pupils still get A* etc. etc.

People shouldn't be forced to choose success or religion.

Ebeneezer Goode · Jan 8, 2016

Why not? Why should religion be paid so much respect?

blade1889 · Jan 8, 2016

Because forcing the choice achieves nowt.

Seriously, what would we gain by making them sit exams in Ramadan? What do we lose by everyone sitting exams outside of Ramadan? nothing to both.

Ebeneezer Goode · Jan 8, 2016

blade1889 said:
Because forcing the choice achieves fuck all.

Seriously, what would we gain by making them sit exams in Ramadan? What do we lose by everyone sitting exams outside of Ramadan?

Equality. The choice hasn't been forced by the state or the schools, it's been forced by the religion, and there are many religions with celebrations during that time, not to mention countless other conflicting dates that are equally none of the JCQ's business. It's their job to offer opportunity, not to negate any obstacles that the parents or the kids put in their own way.

blade1889 · Jan 8, 2016

Equality like respecting peoples religion and not forcing home an arbitrary date that would damage the chances of success of followers of one religion?

It is their job to offer opportunity, and offer everyone the same opportunity at success. And certainly not to negate peoples religion.

Ebeneezer Goode · Jan 8, 2016

blade1889 said:
Equality like respecting peoples religion and not forcing home an arbitrary date that would damage the chances of success of followers of one religion?

I would say more like treating everyone equally.

It is their job to offer opportunity, and offer everyone the same opportunity at success. And certainly not to negate peoples religion.

Impossible. There are loads of religious celebrations throughout the dates that they've chosen, and throughout any dates they could have chosen. They can either ignore them all, or discriminate against some. They have done the latter.

blade1889 · Jan 8, 2016

Ebeneezer Goode said:
I would say more like treating everyone equally.

Impossible. There are loads of religious celebrations throughout the dates that they've chosen, and throughout any dates they could have chosen. They can either ignore them all, or discriminate against some. They have done the latter.

Treating everyone equally by giving everyone the best chances.

What religious festivals are people forced to ignore because of the dates they have now chosen? Festivals that if they took part in they'd do worse at exams?

We don't have exams on bank holidays for Christian festivals.

Ebeneezer Goode · Jan 8, 2016

blade1889 said:
Treating everyone equally by giving everyone the best chances

The same chances.

What religious festivals are people forced to ignore because of the dates they have now chosen? Festivals that if they took part in they'd do worse at exams?

In the first month of exams alone there's a load of pagan ones, and one or two Islamic/Christian/Jewish ones too. Vediovis, Einherjar Day, Frigga Blot, Lailat al Bara'ah, Trinity Sunday, Lag B'Omer etc. The calendar is chock full of religious celebrations that you can't work around without discriminating. Though even if we could navigate around them all, I still haven't seen a convincing argument for why religious dates of significance deserve special consideration over any others.

We don't have exams on bank holidays for Christian festivals

I would happily bin bank holidays that are purely religious in nature.

blade1889 · Jan 8, 2016

Ebeneezer Goode said:
The same chances.

In the first month of exams alone there's a load of pagan ones, and one or two Islamic/Christian/Jewish ones too. Vediovis, Einherjar Day, Frigga Blot, Lailat al Bara'ah, Trinity Sunday, Lag B'Omer etc. The calendar is chock full of religious celebrations that you can't work around without discriminating. Though even if we could navigate around them all, I still haven't seen a convincing argument for why religious dates of significance deserve special consideration over any others.

I would happily bin bank holidays that are purely religious in nature.

Well there isn't any need to navigate around the ones you have mentioned. As far as I can tell none of them require you to do something to the detriment of your exams. Some do not have any celebratory traditions that I canf ind associated with them, a few stipulate you having a 'feast' or eating certain types of grains, not something that would impact exams. And one, Lay B'Omer, is associated with having a bonfire, again not something that would impact on a students exam performance if they were to celebrate it.

So there isn't any need to provide these with special considerations. No one is saying one religion should be favoured over another. Rather that arbitrary dates shouldn't have special considerations and force someone to ignore their religious festivals.

Ebeneezer Goode · Jan 8, 2016

blade1889 said:
Well there isn't any need to navigate around the ones you have mentioned. As far as I can tell none of them require you to do something to the detriment of your exams. Some do not have any celebratory traditions that I canf ind associated with them, a few stipulate you having a 'feast' or eating certain types of grains, not something that would impact exams. And one, Lay B'Omer, is associated with having a bonfire, again not something that would impact on a students exam performance if they were to celebrate it.

I would say the conflict is much more overt in those examples. It's less that your performance would be impacted and more than you would potentially have to choose to attend one or the other.

No one is saying one religion should be favoured over another. Rather that arbitrary dates shouldn't have special considerations and force someone to ignore their religious festivals.

Except what you're describing is exactly that. The truth is that there is no need to provide special considerations for any of these festivals. If you choose to fast or feast in the name of imaginary sky gods instead of putting your exams first then that's your own stupid fault, and you deserve everything you get.

blade1889 · Jan 8, 2016

Ebeneezer Goode said:
I would say the conflict is much more overt in those examples. It's less that your performance would be impacted and more than you would potentially have to choose to attend one or the other.

Except what you're describing is exactly that. The truth is that there is no need to provide special considerations for any of these festivals. If you choose to fast or feast in the name of imaginary sky gods instead of putting your exams first then that's your own stupid fault, and you deserve everything you get.

Well no because you can sit an exam and do as well as the next person and attend a feast or eat a certain thing or attend a bon fire. There isn't any time stipulation on when these feasts etc. can occur unlike with Ramadan. So no issue with an exam 2-4 and feast 6-8, therefore following said religious festivals and doing your best in the exam is not mutually exclusive, as it is with Ramadan.

You're clearly coming at this from the viewpoint of an atheist that religions ares tupid, people shouldn't follow them and therefore we should make no religious considerations. Which is the same view I had in an initial knee jerk reaction that we shouldn't be moving things around, then i thought, why the hell not!? Does it effect anyone in a negative manner to move the dates? Not at all. So who am I to force my atheism on them and stubbornly insist that no considerations should be taken for a persons faith when it has no detriment on me or any other person that isn't of that faith.

mnb089mnb · Jan 8, 2016

Ebeneezer Goode said:
I would say the conflict is much more overt in those examples. It's less that your performance would be impacted and more than you would potentially have to choose to attend one or the other.

Except what you're describing is exactly that. The truth is that there is no need to provide special considerations for any of these festivals. If you choose to fast or feast in the name of imaginary sky gods instead of putting your exams first then that's your own stupid fault, and you deserve everything you get.

Even when they're children?

The Paranoid Pineapple · Jan 8, 2016

I don't think religious belief should be afforded any special privileges but I'm pretty much with blade on this one. I don't think exam boards should be obliged to take Ramadan into consideration when it comes to timetabling exams, but engaging with stakeholders seems like a perfectly normal and sensible thing for the JCQ to be doing. If schools are worried that scheduling exams at one time as opposed to another will be detrimental to the success of some of their pupils then it seems reasonable for this to be taken into consideration when producing a timetable. I'm a bit more dubious on the need to consult with religious groups, but so long as it's not in conflict with what the exam centres want, and it's a reasonable accommodation with few logistical issues, then I don't see much of an issue.

(Should add as a disclaimer that I work for an exam board but I'm merely a lowly office drone so I don't really know or care what my organisation's official stance is...)

Dr Mantis Toboggan · Jan 8, 2016

mnb089mnb said:
Even when they're children?

this model doesn't care about children but there is an optional upgrade that simulates positive emotion for pets, if you're interested?

Womble98 · Feb 11, 2016

#religionofpeace strikes again.

Dr Mantis Toboggan · Feb 11, 2016

#religionofpeace

Dr Mantis Toboggan · Feb 11, 2016

#religionofpeace

Dr Mantis Toboggan · Feb 11, 2016

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Dr Mantis Toboggan · Feb 11, 2016

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Dr Mantis Toboggan · Feb 11, 2016

#religionofpeace

silkyman · Feb 11, 2016

#Iheardyouthefirsttime

Dr Mantis Toboggan · Feb 11, 2016

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silkyman · Feb 11, 2016

Too old for hashtags?

Too old for speed dating, too young for carbon dating.

Stagat · Feb 11, 2016

But old enough for dad jokes

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