Explosion at Manchester Arena

Big Bird · May 23, 2017

I'm meant to be going to see Micky Flanagan in Birmingham next week but now I'm completely torn on it knowing there's a fair chance something like this could happen and my two young children could end up having to grow up without their parents. How can that be?

I realise this in a sense would be 'letting them win' but finding myself considering if it's worth the risk.

RIP to the deceased in Manchester. Another horrific act of violence targeting kids who went out for the evening for entertainment and nothing more. Disgusting.

AFCB_Mark · May 23, 2017

My misses is a massive netball fan, recently I took her to an international netball tournament at Wembley Arena. Very much a family event, parents with kids and teenagers everywhere, the venue looked about full to it's 12,000 capacity. The foyer area before and after was jam packed with excitable people. In this sense it feels comparable to the scenario found last night at the MEN.

To get into Wembley Arena that day, everyone had to pass through airport style detector machines, with security guards on hand to pat down anyone they thought necessary / check inside bags (which at an event with a lot of females, was a considerable number of handbags etc). Would the detectors have picked up an IED type thing? I'm really not sure about the technical capabilities. But between the machines and the security blokes, it would have looked and felt imposing to anyone trying to smuggle something untoward in there.

It took ages to funnel through and get everyone in, a queue requiring management from the event staff and patience from the attendees young and old. I wonder if similar measures were in place at the MEN?

At the time I thought it odd to have such measures at a netball match, who's going to target these kids I thought. But on reflection it now seems there is no level to which these bastards won't stoop. No limit to their cowardice. And I'd guess that kind of entry procedure will have to become normal at all events of mass public gathering unfortunately.

Wombling Kiwi · May 23, 2017

Thoughts are with you from New Zealand.

G.B · May 23, 2017

an 8 year old girl the second victim confirmed. absolutely awful

The Eyes of Self Actual · May 23, 2017

No matter what security is in place there will always be gatherings of people. And that will be the target. Or just target town on a Saturday afternoon (lorry in Sweden last month!!). There is no escaping that fact. And there’s also too many potential terrorists on the watch list – so many that being on the watch list means very little in reality.

We need to control our borders. And we need to stamp out extremism. We need to react. Let’s close every single Mosque that he’s visited. Let’s knock his house down and ship his relatives out of here. Let’s do SOMETHING.

Yet the left, media and politicians want us to do nothing. Offer a taxi lift, give someone a room for a night. That’s it. And wait for the next attack. Unless we react this will become the norm.

Attacks in Europe are now a regular occurrence, do we react or simply except – as the London mayor stated – that terror is now a part of everyday life?

Is no one else mad Europe is irrecoverably changing for the worse?

Smudge · May 23, 2017

Was talking about with someone this morning, by the sounds of it so far, the explosion was detonated on the concourse area at the end of the gig. Which by that time was full of people who hadnt attended but were waiting around to pick up family members. So having just one more guy milling around looking as bored and inconsequential as all the other people there would not have looked out of place. Chances are these days, you wouldnt get away with carrying a suicide bomb into an event like this, or a football match, or an airplane etc. because you have to not only be able to buy a ticket (which if you are one of those who are known to the authorities would possibly get you caught before you got within miles of the place) and they of course have security. Hence all the more recent attacks have happened in places or with weapons that anybody can get their hands on without raising suspicion. The lorry in Nice. The car on Westminster Bridge. The Paris attacks which took place in the streets, and outside the Stade De France. It only highlights that as much as we can be vigilant and have security at public events like this, nobody can police the whole world. They're always a step ahead because of that.

As for how to deal with extremism, it is so difficult. People can find lines in the Quoran that say they should murder the infidels and all this shite, and call it proof that all Muslims in the world want to wipe the west off the face of the earth, but you can find some equally violent stuff in the Bible like stoning gay people to death.The problem with every major religion is that there are people who will twist it to suit their own agenda, and that is a danger with every religion. I think the only reason people always perceive that its only Muslims who do this is because one of the beliefs they twist is that they will be rewarded in the afterlife if they take down a few dirty infidels with them. So their extremist nutters care much less about being killed carrying out their 'work,' in fact they practically welcome dying doing it. Other religious extremists, such as Brevik, still care about killing a lot of people, but are less keen on dying for it. The fact is, ISIS can sit there in their little cave in Syria or wherever, and claim responsibility and call this guy their soldier and all that. In most cases, they've never met the guy. The people who do this are mentally ill and highly susceptible to suggestion. The guys in charge of ISIS arent the ones blowing themselves up are they? Because they're not that thick, and chances are dont believe in 90% of the religious stuff they are preaching. They are simply using it to further themselves, and they know that if they put enough stuff out there, there will be always be some susceptible nut who will think its a cracking idea to blow himself up and take a load down with him. And thus someone else has done their dirty work for them, while they sit there making some more shitty little videos. They're not Muslims, they're a cult using Islam to exploit and murder.

Lets not forget though, as much as we struggle to see it, there is always an end in sight. Go back 30 years and the IRA bombed Manchester, Warrington, Birmingham, Brighton, and so much more. Nobody proposed deporting Catholics or the Irish, or nuking Belfast. Im not saying there are not still problems in Ireland relating back to the troubles, but we are a world away today from the situation in the 70s and 80s, and how was that achieved? With peace talks. The IRA didnt represent Ireland or Catholics, in the same way ISIS do not represent Muslims, Syria, Turkey or the Middle East. They and anyone who believes their bullshit are a shower of c*** who wont win.

Ciderup · May 23, 2017

My daughter was going to see Ariana in London on Thursday, which I believe has been cancelled. After these events, she didn't want to go anyway.
As someone who spends a lot of time in Manchester, through work, and know this area well and I am genuinely distraught at this news.
They've just named a poor girl of just 8 years of age as among those lost. What a truly tragic event.
My heart and prayers go out to all those affected.
What we do about it, I don't know but closing the borders has to be a possibility although the problem is already here IMHO. If anyone, wants to settle here, fit in and contribute then I've no issue but to openly justify dreadful acts by hiding behind religion is very wrong. Would the vast peaceful majority that follow Islam point the finger at extremists? That's what needs to happen.
R.I.P.

Smudge · May 23, 2017

The Eyes of Self Actual said:
No matter what security is in place there will always be gatherings of people. And that will be the target. Or just target town on a Saturday afternoon (lorry in Sweden last month!!). There is no escaping that fact. And there’s also too many potential terrorists on the watch list – so many that being on the watch list means very little in reality.

We need to control our borders. And we need to stamp out extremism. We need to react. Let’s close every single Mosque that he’s visited. Let’s knock his house down and ship his relatives out of here. Let’s do SOMETHING.

Hasnt every major terrorist attack in this country been carried out by people who were born here (or Ireland?) How exactly will closing our borders fix that?

As for the watch list, you would be surprised how many potential attacks like this have been stopped. The guy with the knives near Parliament made headlines because it was in the same place only a few days after a previous attack, but attacks like that are thwarted all the time, because as much as the press love to play on the 'known to authorities' line, its a very loose terminology. The guy on Westminster Bridge for example was 'known to authorities.' In reality he hadnt been on the watch list for over 20 years, initially being watched when he came out of prison in the early 90s, and for the next 20 years, he did nothing to arouse any suspicion he might do something like he did so he was taken off it. There will of course always be some who slip the net. The guy in France who murdered the priest in the hour he didnt have to wear his security tag for example. But counter terrorism groups, here and all over Europe, do a lot of good work keeping us safe that doesnt get reported. In fact, it only seems to be reported when one is thwarted in the immediate aftermath of another attack, and I think that is done to reinforce the fact that they are keeping us safe, not sitting around twiddling their thumbs while all these lone wolves run amok.

Ciderup · May 23, 2017

Smudge said:
Hasnt every major terrorist attack in this country been carried out by people who were born here (or Ireland?) How exactly will closing our borders fix that?

As for the watch list, you would be surprised how many potential attacks like this have been stopped. The guy with the knives near Parliament made headlines because it was in the same place only a few days after a previous attack, but attacks like that are thwarted all the time, because as much as the press love to play on the 'known to authorities' line, its a very loose terminology. The guy on Westminster Bridge for example was 'known to authorities.' In reality he hadnt been on the watch list for over 20 years, initially being watched when he came out of prison in the early 90s, and for the next 20 years, he did nothing to arouse any suspicion he might do something like he did so he was taken off it. There will of course always be some who slip the net. The guy in France who murdered the priest in the hour he didnt have to wear his security tag for example. But counter terrorism groups, here and all over Europe, do a lot of good work keeping us safe that doesnt get reported. In fact, it only seems to be reported when one is thwarted in the immediate aftermath of another attack, and I think that is done to reinforce the fact that they are keeping us safe, not sitting around twiddling their thumbs while all these lone wolves run amok.

I know you're right Smudge. What more can be done though? When innocent children are being slaughtered, surely this country won't just sit back?

Dave · May 23, 2017

AFCB_Mark said:
To get into Wembley Arena that day, everyone had to pass through airport style detector machines, with security guards on hand to pat down anyone they thought necessary / check inside bags (which at an event with a lot of females, was a considerable number of handbags etc). Would the detectors have picked up an IED type thing? I'm really not sure about the technical capabilities. But between the machines and the security blokes, it would have looked and felt imposing to anyone trying to smuggle something untoward in there.

It took ages to funnel through and get everyone in, a queue requiring management from the event staff and patience from the attendees young and old. I wonder if similar measures were in place at the MEN?

I've had to do the same for a couple of events and one you also had to register interest for tickets before the sale date with a passport photo scanned, then when you went through the security they scanned your ticket and your mug shot appeared on a big screen next to the metal detectors.

Time to invest in some shares in smiths group who make these airport scanners I think....

.V. · May 23, 2017

Another horrible terrorist attack, and my thoughts and prayers are with the families affected by this. So many children have lost their lives and have been wounded, it is truly tragic.

Some perspective is needed though. This is not the norm for this country, nor is it becoming the norm in this country. Closing borders will not solve the problem; previous terrorists have either been British born or here for years. I don't know what the solution is, but that isn't it.

The Eyes of Self Actual · May 23, 2017

Smudge said:
Hasnt every major terrorist attack in this country been carried out by people who were born here (or Ireland?) How exactly will closing our borders fix that?

There’s no denying we have a home-grown terror problem that puts religion first over Nationalism.

However there’s no need to make an already poisonous situation worse. Immigrants are still arriving in their thousands from the Middle East and Africa into Europe. And once in Europe they are only coming to the UK, France, Germany or Sweden. These people will put religion first. And a percentage of these people will be extremists or sympathisers. We need to react. We need to do something. We need to protect Europe.

Smudge said:
As for the watch list, you would be surprised how many potential attacks like this have been stopped.

I know the security forces stop a lot of attacks. I know they do a good job. But there’s so many it’s impossible to keep track of them all. That’s why Europe is waking up to drumbeat terror attacks. It’s an impossible job and one the left will keep making harder with their naïve immigration policies and border-less world vision. There’s differences between people and cultures you know? Some are better than others. Some are worth protecting.

Smudge · May 23, 2017

The Eyes of Self Actual said:
There’s differences between people and cultures you know? Some are better than others. Some are worth protecting.

Im sure the prick wearing the suicide vest last night told himself the same thing.

Ciderup · May 23, 2017

.V. said:
Another horrible terrorist attack, and my thoughts and prayers are with the families affected by this. So many children have lost their lives and have been wounded, it is truly tragic.

Some perspective is needed though. This is not the norm for this country, nor is it becoming the norm in this country. Closing borders will not solve the problem; previous terrorists have either been British born or here for years. I don't know what the solution is, but that isn't it.

I don't disagree V but would like to see something being done, even as a temporary measure while things are reassessed.
Personally, and I totally appreciate these vermin are a minute minority, I think we have to encourage the enormous majority to protect the general population, be that majority Christian, Muslim, Sikh or atheist. I feel the answer has to come from within the muslim faith. If that's not PC, I apologise.
Is it allowed for a muslim to inform on another? I don't know enough of their beliefs, which is probably ignorance on my part. All I do know is I have friends and work colleagues who are devout followers of the muslim faith who are as appalled as us today as the huge majority are.

The Eyes of Self Actual · May 23, 2017

Smudge said:
Im sure the prick wearing the suicide vest last night told himself the same thing.

So what are you comparing here? People who want to protect their borders and culture with a suicide bomber targeting children for religious reasons?

Seriously?

KevinMcallister · May 23, 2017

this planet really is a pathetic waste of space

hatred and jealousy have really taken off, and I heard when I was in school that humans have evolved?

god help us if we ever need to pull together as a human race to save the planet

Smudge · May 23, 2017

The Eyes of Self Actual said:
So what are you comparing here? People who want to protect their borders and culture with a suicide bomber targeting children for religious reasons?

Seriously?

You literally just said some people are better than others are worth protecting. What exactly are you advocating, if not taking action against the cultures you think these people belong to? Its a bit like the people who rejoice in our country dropping nukes on Syria, and then whining that Europe is being overrun by refugees. The second you start seeing people as a colour, or a religion, you are dehumanising them. And crying about lefties not wanting to put a wall around the White Cliffs of Dover and start deporting every Muslim here (where to, Im not sure, when a lot of them were born here...) isnt solving anything either. Meet hate with hate and what do we end up with? Fucking war.

The point is, the greatest quote ever to have been made on this subject, is that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Clearly this fucking idiot believes so strongly in his side of that argument, that to him, murdering kids is for freedom, not terrorism. While you think his culture isnt worth preserving, he doesnt think yours is either. Do you see now why I have such a problem with your statement?

The Eyes of Self Actual · May 23, 2017

Smudge said:
You literally just said some people are better than others are worth protecting. What exactly are you advocating, if not taking action against the cultures you think these people belong to?

No action at all. The action is defending Europe. Not attacking others. They are welcome to preserve their culture if they want to. I wish the left would allow Europe to do the same.

Some cultures are better than others. To deny that is to live in fantasy land. France or Saudi Arabia? Germany or Mexico? Come on, be reasonable.

Smudge said:
Its a bit like the people who rejoice in our country dropping nukes on Syria, and then whining that Europe is being overrun by refugees.

Yeah we shouldn’t by in Syria. Why on earth we are supporting extremists I don’t know, but that’s NATO for you – a joke. Another topic though.

Smudge said:
The second you start seeing people as a colour, or a religion, you are dehumanising them. And crying about lefties not wanting to put a wall around the White Cliffs of Dover and start deporting every Muslim here (where to, Im not sure, when a lot of them were born here...) isnt solving anything either. Meet hate with hate and what do we end up with? Fucking war.

It’s not hate to want to preserve your culture, traditions and way of life. It’s love.

Redfox · May 23, 2017

Smudge said:
Was talking about with someone this morning, by the sounds of it so far, the explosion was detonated on the concourse area at the end of the gig. Which by that time was full of people who hadnt attended but were waiting around to pick up family members. So having just one more guy milling around looking as bored and inconsequential as all the other people there would not have looked out of place. Chances are these days, you wouldnt get away with carrying a suicide bomb into an event like this, or a football match, or an airplane etc. because you have to not only be able to buy a ticket (which if you are one of those who are known to the authorities would possibly get you caught before you got within miles of the place) and they of course have security. Hence all the more recent attacks have happened in places or with weapons that anybody can get their hands on without raising suspicion. The lorry in Nice. The car on Westminster Bridge. The Paris attacks which took place in the streets, and outside the Stade De France. It only highlights that as much as we can be vigilant and have security at public events like this, nobody can police the whole world. They're always a step ahead because of that.

As for how to deal with extremism, it is so difficult. People can find lines in the Quoran that say they should murder the infidels and all this shite, and call it proof that all Muslims in the world want to wipe the west off the face of the earth, but you can find some equally violent stuff in the Bible like stoning gay people to death.The problem with every major religion is that there are people who will twist it to suit their own agenda, and that is a danger with every religion. I think the only reason people always perceive that its only Muslims who do this is because one of the beliefs they twist is that they will be rewarded in the afterlife if they take down a few dirty infidels with them. So their extremist nutters care much less about being killed carrying out their 'work,' in fact they practically welcome dying doing it. Other religious extremists, such as Brevik, still care about killing a lot of people, but are less keen on dying for it. The fact is, ISIS can sit there in their little cave in Syria or wherever, and claim responsibility and call this guy their soldier and all that. In most cases, they've never met the guy. The people who do this are mentally ill and highly susceptible to suggestion. The guys in charge of ISIS arent the ones blowing themselves up are they? Because they're not that thick, and chances are dont believe in 90% of the religious stuff they are preaching. They are simply using it to further themselves, and they know that if they put enough stuff out there, there will be always be some susceptible nut who will think its a cracking idea to blow himself up and take a load down with him. And thus someone else has done their dirty work for them, while they sit there making some more shitty little videos. They're not Muslims, they're a cult using Islam to exploit and murder.

Lets not forget though, as much as we struggle to see it, there is always an end in sight. Go back 30 years and the IRA bombed Manchester, Warrington, Birmingham, Brighton, and so much more. Nobody proposed deporting Catholics or the Irish, or nuking Belfast. Im not saying there are not still problems in Ireland relating back to the troubles, but we are a world away today from the situation in the 70s and 80s, and how was that achieved? With peace talks. The IRA didnt represent Ireland or Catholics, in the same way ISIS do not represent Muslims, Syria, Turkey or the Middle East. They and anyone who believes their bullshit are a shower of c*** who wont win.

We had successful peace talks with the IRA because they could be reasoned with at least, with ISIS it is an entirely different case because they are pure evil and only wish for death and destruction in the world against anyone who does not convert to Islam and they do not even value their own life if they are willing to kill themselves in order to kill others. Like you say, they're just a death cult using Islam to exploit and murder, there is no negotiating with them.

Redfox · May 23, 2017

KevinMcallister said:
this planet really is a pathetic waste of space

hatred and jealousy have really taken off, and I heard when I was in school that humans have evolved?

god help us if we ever need to pull together as a human race to save the planet

Well we were looking like we'd evolved over here in the west yes, right until we naively decided to let and accept a backward and barbaric religion into our society. I know no religion is perfect but Islam truly is the one that is really messing the world up right now.

If the rest of the world had been like the western world then it would have been great.

Jockney · May 23, 2017

Redfox said:
If the rest of the world had been like the western world then it would have been great.

If the rest of the world had been like the Western World humanity wouldn't have survived the modern industrial era.

KevinMcallister · May 23, 2017

i'm dreading the full victims list

some awful reports of children without legs, absolutely vile and sickening attack

JaseTheVillain · May 23, 2017

KevinMcallister said:
god help us if we ever need to pull together as a human race to save the planet

We kind of already do, but we're not.

War is brewing everywhere, and we need to keep peace as much as possible, but we're just consistently antagonising things.

The planet is going through changes (whether natural or not is not the argument I'm having) and we need to try and do something with that, yet we're not.

Humanity is, always has been, and probably always will be, fucked.

Hate is never the solution to anything, yet we are a creature absolutely brimming with it.

RIP to the victims, and thoughts with their families and of those injured in this attack too.

AFCB_Mark · May 23, 2017

KevinMcallister said:
i'm dreading the full victims list

some awful reports of children without legs, absolutely vile and sickening attack

The implications and legacy of this attack will sadly be long lasting. There are going to be kids now living with the ramifications, both physical and psychological, for the rest of their lives.

DarkSithLord · May 23, 2017

Sky News‏Verified account @SkyNews 10s10 seconds ago
US officials say that the suspected #ManchesterAttack bomber has been identified by British authorities as Salman Abedi

HertsWolf · May 23, 2017

When I was a kid and scared of big fucking monsters, I didn't realise that they would be human. :sad:

Abertawe · May 23, 2017

Why do these guys always carry ID.

HertsWolf · May 23, 2017

DarkSithLord said:
Sky News‏Verified account @SkyNews 10s10 seconds ago
US officials say that the suspected #ManchesterAttack bomber has been identified by British authorities as Salman Abedi

I'm assuming that news came from the Russians who got it on the very very highest authority from the States who got it from one of their Mancunian partners.

blademan89 · May 23, 2017

There needs to be serious change in this country. Starting with a complete ban on any Muslims entering the country at all, all faith schools to be closed, mosques to be severely limited and have members of our security forces present to hear everything that is said. Severe measures need to be taken under severe circumstances and that's exactly the situation we find ourselves in. The government and politicians have got to take charge and sort this out instead of shitting themselves and letting them do whatever they want. The extreme option is the British public taking it into there own hands which last night when I first heard sounded good to me but we don't want that really or we just carry on as we are and keep letting this happen over and over and fucking over again.

Abertawe · May 23, 2017

^^
You're being lied to.

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