Cheating

Stringy

Well-Known Member
Messages
864
Likes
353
Location
Sheffield
Supports
Mansfield
Thread starter #1
We've come in for some tough stick from Newport and Vale in recent times for cheating. However, every single team I have ever seen us play has also cheated.

Is cheating in football an underappreciated craft? In some ways, I say yes.

Perhaps we just need to cheat a little more politely.
 

valefan16

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,847
Likes
723
Supports
Port Vale
#2
Some teams go overboard, notably Stevenage (multiple occasions under Westley and Maamria) and today with Mansfield. Recall Rochdale going to extreme lengths in the promotion season under Coleman.

Teams do it but on some occasions it gets above and beyond. Pope was vocal against Stevenages antics last season, he came off Twitter for a bit!

I feel maybe we are too nice; Aspin banned it (along with gloves) and Askey comes across as Mr Nice Guy too. Maybe that’s why it infuriates so much.

Overall I’d assume it’s down to the management. Stevenage have a culture of it from Westley. Mansfield today I haven’t noticed do it before against us (but was losing last season against us so couldn’t really time waste), maybe it’s their managers way? Or desperation for the pressure they are under currently.
 

loz

Active Member
Messages
233
Likes
32
Location
Bratfud
Supports
Citeh
#3
Some teams go overboard
The worst I can recall are FGR and the Swindon team of 7/8 years ago. Ironically, that Swindon team was probably the best in the division and other team's supporters were delighted when they lost in the play offs. Honestly think that the likes of Mark Cooper have no place in football.
 

leedsvaliant

Active Member
Messages
387
Likes
37
Location
Staffs Moorlands
Supports
Port Vale
#4
It's definitely got worse. Or I think I notice it more because Vale don't do enough of it. Maybe it's just part of the game now and we should all get involved.

They've tried to introduce rules such as the subs going off at the nearest point, but it will only stop if players like Bishop today get booked or sent off for ungentlemanly conduct when feigning injury etc.

Also, the referees aren't strong enough on it and never add on all the time that is wasted.

As others have said, Swindon were awful at it a few years ago. Stevenage still do it but are now shit. It definitely gives an advantage if you know how to play the referee. It also disrupts the momentum of the opposition team, which is what Bishop was trying to do today but Vale just played on.
 

loz

Active Member
Messages
233
Likes
32
Location
Bratfud
Supports
Citeh
#7
Interesting from our manager
Good point lv. How many times do we see a player kick a ball past an opponent and then run into him. Not only does he get a free kick, but the opponent usually gets booked. Re your earlier point, the refs in this division are usually inexperienced and not able to deal with the cheating that goes on. Managers know this and there are some unscrupulous managers and owners out there.
 

valefan16

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,847
Likes
723
Supports
Port Vale
#9
Rose today doesn’t just run into him, he actually spun 180 degrees and backed into him on the slow mo, then did some weird star jump and then fell to the ground like he had been hit by an arctic lorry.

On the slow mo of it it’s even worse than it looked at the time!

Bennett got a yellow too and can’t see how he could of got out the way just after on their right back.

Referees need to improve, apparently we are getting these inexperienced ones because the usual ones are being used with VAR in the premier league.
 

Buxton Vale

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,420
Likes
173
Location
Buxton
Supports
Port Vale
Twitter
@Buxtonvale1
#11
To be fair to Mansfield, they didn't do it last season or in recent years, but today they were kicking the ball away at free kicks, diving and generally trying to con the ref, who was clueless enough to let them get on with it. I can only think that its the new manager?
 

Trapdoor

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,187
Likes
269
Location
Here
Supports
Exeter
#12
Newport were awful today, play acting up to the referee at every opportunity to try and get our players booked. Ref was a complete homer though so bought everything they sold. He may as well have been wearing a Newport shirt.

Until the standards of refereeing in this league improves people will continue to try this shit.
 

Kim Mitten

Well-Known Member
Messages
717
Likes
270
Supports
Southend United
#13
We've come in for some tough stick from Newport and Vale in recent times for cheating. However, every single team I have ever seen us play has also cheated.

Is cheating in football an underappreciated craft? In some ways, I say yes.

Perhaps we just need to cheat a little more politely.
In Italy you're seen as a poor player if it's not part of your game. Of course VAR is starting to change things, especially when it comes to shirt pulling in the box.

Southend partook in some wonderful time wasting today, from pretty early on as well, but when you haven't won all season it was actually pretty pleasing to see!
 

Super_horns

Well-Known Member
Moderator
Messages
7,072
Likes
593
Supports
WATFORD
#14
Newport were awful today, play acting up to the referee at every opportunity to try and get our players booked. Ref was a complete homer though so bought everything they sold. He may as well have been wearing a Newport shirt.

Until the standards of refereeing in this league improves people will continue to try this shit.
And no doubt a Newport fan will come on and say the opposite!?

And the different views of the managers sum it up...

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/sp...were-clinical-enough-well-give-anyone-a-game/
 

JJ1532

Well-Known Member
Moderator
Messages
2,821
Likes
820
Location
Hong Kong
Supports
Crewe Alex
#15
Referees need to improve, apparently we are getting these inexperienced ones because the usual ones are being used with VAR in the premier league.
This makes a lot of sense. I was wondering why there were so many unfamiliar names knocking about and why so many seemed new. Classic isn't it, all the half decent ones(of which there aren't many) are now serving the PL spotting players that are offside by an inch.

Meanwhile we are left to deal with the rookies making shite decisions every week 2. What else is new?
 
Messages
206
Likes
22
Location
London
Supports
Oldham
#16
The shit teams don’t do it and the good teams do. I hate it but that’s the truth. We’ve not been good at it for as long as I can remember and we’ve also been shit for as long as I can remember.
 

AdamStag

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,471
Likes
821
Supports
Mansfield Town
#17
Oxford used to be terrible for it.

Newport have been dodgy as in recent years, remember Cheltenham a couple of times too.

But as said elsewhere they’ll be another fan of the opposite club thinking the opposite thing.

Given our discipline record this season mansfield fans are a little limited on what we can say just now :lol:
 

Son of Cod

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,038
Likes
3,479
Location
London
Supports
Grimsby Town
#18
It's not cheating, it's "game management". The Cowleys are masters of this at and probably get 20+ points a season thanks to standing on the touchline and waving their arms around like they have done 6 pills at a rave. I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, you don't want your team to do this but on the other is everyone else is doing it then you may as well.
 
Messages
24
Likes
10
Location
Stoke
Supports
Port Vale
#19
Newport were awful today, play acting up to the referee at every opportunity to try and get our players booked. Ref was a complete homer though so bought everything they sold. He may as well have been wearing a Newport shirt.

Until the standards of refereeing in this league improves people will continue to try this shit.
They were exactly the same against us two games ago,

Even got a pathetic penalty doing it as well. Shock horror.
 

valefan16

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,847
Likes
723
Supports
Port Vale
#21
Bless. More sour grapes luv. Penalty was about as blatant as you will see, Matt had his shirt practically pulled off his back.
To be fair that was never a penalty, he was grabbing Smudge! Justice was done with the save so thankfully wasn’t an issue.

That wasn’t cheating though just poor officiating.
 

Chris FGR

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,408
Likes
2,605
Supports
Forest Green
#22
The worst I can recall are FGR and the Swindon team of 7/8 years ago. Ironically, that Swindon team was probably the best in the division and other team's supporters were delighted when they lost in the play offs. Honestly think that the likes of Mark Cooper have no place in football.
We're actually one of the cleanest teams in the league. Even though we get a lot of unlucky yellow and red cards we don't actually commit many fouls at all.
 

Stringy

Well-Known Member
Messages
864
Likes
353
Location
Sheffield
Supports
Mansfield
Thread starter #23
It's not cheating, it's "game management". The Cowleys are masters of this at and probably get 20+ points a season thanks to standing on the touchline and waving their arms around like they have done 6 pills at a rave. I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, you don't want your team to do this but on the other is everyone else is doing it then you may as well.
I think "game management" cheating is legitimate. I don't have any problem with the type of offences below:

- Picking up the ball and running back with it so teammates can get back into position on throw-ins, corners and free-kicks.
- Holding an opposition player with just enough force to prevent the run either from set pieces or open play without grappling so hard as to knock them over.
- Taking time, to a certain extent, over every break in play when winning or when under pressure.

I don't like to see players diving (Danny Rose) or committing dangerous fouls (Matt Preston), as I think that's against the spirit of the game, but I see the other offences as being part of the tactical battle.
 

Fedora Dale

Well-Known Member
Messages
970
Likes
276
Supports
Rochdale
#24
Some teams go overboard, notably Stevenage (multiple occasions under Westley and Maamria) and today with Mansfield. Recall Rochdale going to extreme lengths in the promotion season under Coleman.

Teams do it but on some occasions it gets above and beyond. Pope was vocal against Stevenages antics last season, he came off Twitter for a bit!

I feel maybe we are too nice; Aspin banned it (along with gloves) and Askey comes across as Mr Nice Guy too. Maybe that’s why it infuriates so much.

Overall I’d assume it’s down to the management. Stevenage have a culture of it from Westley. Mansfield today I haven’t noticed do it before against us (but was losing last season against us so couldn’t really time waste), maybe it’s their managers way? Or desperation for the pressure they are under currently.
This attitude of the Dale players under Coleman eventually contributed to his departure - we were becoming unpleasant to watch, and once Keith Hill became "available" the writing was on the wall. Don't recall anyone complaining too much about Accy, though - perhaps some of the over-aggression and referee-conning was a reaction to inheriting the shambles left by the clueless Steve Eyre.

In hindsight, though, the main victim at Vale Park went on to bigger things afterwards. I don't know if Sam Morsy would have developed quite as well at Vale as he did at Chesterfield, where he quickly became the lynch pin of their team and earned a move upwards (OK, to Wigan, but they're still in The Championship)
 

valefan16

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,847
Likes
723
Supports
Port Vale
#25
This attitude of the Dale players under Coleman eventually contributed to his departure - we were becoming unpleasant to watch, and once Keith Hill became "available" the writing was on the wall. Don't recall anyone complaining too much about Accy, though - perhaps some of the over-aggression and referee-conning was a reaction to inheriting the shambles left by the clueless Steve Eyre.

In hindsight, though, the main victim at Vale Park went on to bigger things afterwards. I don't know if Sam Morsy would have developed quite as well at Vale as he did at Chesterfield, where he quickly became the lynch pin of their team and earned a move upwards (OK, to Wigan, but they're still in The Championship)
Adams didn’t really rate him for some reason.

Now he’s a World Cup player and we got a nominal sell on. One of his weaker decisions.
 

Vanni

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,597
Likes
2,788
Location
.
Supports
Cambridge United
#26
I posted this in the Vale/Stags thread and I'm going to post it here as well - managers and coaching staff warning the ref before KO about an opposition player's (perceived) tendency to dive is a form of cheating. AFAIK, cheating means looking to gain an unfair advantage, and filling the ref's head with all sorts of warnings about their 'insert number here' is just that.

I trust most of you do get it so I won't be expanding any further on this. Ta.
 
Messages
56
Likes
14
Location
Alderley Edge
Supports
Vale
#27
I posted this in the Vale/Stags thread and I'm going to post it here as well - managers and coaching staff warning the ref before KO about an opposition player's (perceived) tendency to dive is a form of cheating. AFAIK, cheating means looking to gain an unfair advantage, and filling the ref's head with all sorts of warnings about their 'insert number here' is just that.

I trust most of you do get it so I won't be expanding any further on this. Ta.
 

MTFC_07

Active Member
Messages
417
Likes
64
Location
Cheshire
Supports
Macclesfield Town
#30
Posted this on here before, but Askey’s Macc teams almost never cheated. I don’t like cheating, but it was painful to watch others cheating against us on a near-weekly basis and we were so honest to the point it was screwing us over.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
14,724
Messages
897,568
Members
4,973
Latest member
East Yorkshire Mariner