David Moyes back to the BPL

[G.B]

Would you get rid of McClaren if it were up to you?

No, not yet. He hasn't even had a half a season. I'd get rid of some of the awful payers we have in January (looking at you, Colo) and back him financially. Before this season kicked off we still had the 3 CB's we played with in the Championship 6 years ago. Chronic lack of investment.

One of our biggest mistakes was forcing Ben Arfa out on the back of a run of 4 goals in 6 games and 3 MOTM performances because, somehow, the manager figured our best attacking player for probably a decade was to blame for 3 goals conceded at Everton. Currently scoring 1 in 2 for a Nice side that sits 4th in Ligue 1 and has found himsef back in the French national team. Could do with someone like that right now, we've never come close to replacing him.

 

[ArmchairDiehard]

I agree that he needs time. I'm also not convinced that some / most of the summer signings were down to him. Not sure if that view is shared up there?

 

[JimJams]

Well you has Cabella and promptly fucked him off too. Seems odd that a player new to the league who was never played in his preferred position was quickly booted when the whole side was shit.

 

[G.B]

yep, i spent a lot of last season moaning about that. cabella got pardewed. he did similar shit with ba, anita, santon, marveux, mbiwa, sissoko, cisse and even gouffran (who was bought as a forward but unfortunately for him he's hard woking, so he found himself in midfield). he's fucking terrified of flair players, or players with a far higher reputation than him, and simply doesn't know what to do with them. hence playing shite like perch, williamson et all consistently. ben arfa tore shit up for us though, cabella didn't. mainly because he was never given a chance to prove he could do it, but still... engineering ben arfa's exit was one of the biggest mistakes the club has made.

 

[Pagnell]

So, ten league games with Sunderland and zero wins, Moyes showing his "much sought after" quality I see.

Could he beat Derby's all time lowest Premier League points tally record I wonder? They're scheduled to hit less than 10 points if things don't pick up.

 

[Hank]

We are on for Derby's points total at the moment, I honestly don't know where our next win will come from. At the end of last season I was confident that we wouldn't be in this situation again, we had a great team spirit and Allardyce had us organised. Moyes has come and we are now back to square one. I was quite happy when Moyes was appointed but jesus wept he's dour, football wise and personality.

 

[Pagnell]

We are on for Derby's points total at the moment, I honestly don't know where our next win will come from. At the end of last season I was confident that we wouldn't be in this situation again, we had a great team spirit and Allardyce had us organised. Moyes has come and we are now back to square one. I was quite happy when Moyes was appointed but jesus wept he's dour, football wise and personality.

Moyes was never anything special, but was a safe pair of hands for a club with little ambition beyond mid table/flirt with Europa spots and an occasional decent cup run. This is why he was perfect for Everton. Boring but steady, so to speak. But it appears the last few years at United and Sociedad have hit his confidence hard and now he's not even that. Worrying times for Sunderland.

 

[speker]

Moyes was never anything special, but was a safe pair of hands for a club with little ambition beyond mid table/flirt with Europa spots and an occasional decent cup run. This is why he was perfect for Everton. Boring but steady, so to speak. But it appears the last few years at United and Sociedad have hit his confidence hard and now he's not even that. Worrying times for Sunderland.

Moyes is a manager of limited ability who has won little during his career .Rafa on the other hand.................is bringing his particular style of magic to Newcastle

 

[SALTIRE]

As long as Moyes is still in charge by the end of November so we can get an easy win please.

 

[St. Juste]

Moyes is a better manager than Allardyce, their respective careers make that abundantly clear, but the squad is perpetually weak and the recruitment has been dire.

Kaboul and M'Vila are big losses from the end of last season whilst he's still relying on a year older Defoe. Quite how John O'Shea is still playing in the Premier League despite never being that good, and being 35, kinda says it all.

It's about time they got relegated to be honest, and they might as well sack Moyes soon - Scotland job will likely soon be available.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

It's about time they got relegated to be honest, and they might as well sack Moyes soon - Scotland job will likely soon be available.

Funny you say that, was discussing this with a southern residing Scottish mate of mine just last night.

He's terrified of Moyes getting the Scotland job and hopes Sunderland have a pickup in form asap to keep the dour git away from the job. When I asked who he might prefer for the job, he wasn't over flowing with ideas and suggested they ask Michael O'Neil at N.Ireland to name his price, otherwise look to Europe again.

For my English two pennies, Scotland's highlights in recent years have been occasional shocks against some big nations. Moyes simply won't bring those, he just doesn't know how. Look at Everton's laughable record against the top clubs in all those years. But he might to a better job of getting Scotland over the line against the small teams they should be beating, which has long been Scotland's problem.

 

[Stevencc]

Moyes is a better manager than Allardyce, their respective careers make that abundantly clear, but the squad is perpetually weak and the recruitment has been dire.

Kaboul and M'Vila are big losses from the end of last season whilst he's still relying on a year older Defoe. Quite how John O'Shea is still playing in the Premier League despite never being that good, and being 35, kinda says it all.

It's about time they got relegated to be honest, and they might as well sack Moyes soon - Scotland job will likely soon be available.

I'm very surprised to see you say this.

Very surprised.

 

[St. Juste]

Well, I have absolutely no issue or preference if the manager is Scottish or not - it should make absolutely no difference. There's no doubt that a few years ago Lagerback would have been a far better choice than Levein, for example.

Our issue with attracting top class foreign coaches is of course money, England may be the biggest payers but we certainly are not. I think the salary of Strachan (I can't recall exactly what it is) ties in with a mid range Assistant Manager in the Premier League. Scottish coaches might take a bit of a paycut, it'll certainly be far less than Moyes is earning now, but foreign managers have little incentive to do so.

I'd put Moyes above McLeish who has been poor since leaving Scotland, and far above the likes of Malky Mackay who would inevitably apply.

No interest whatsoever in O'Neill at Northern Ireland.

 

[St. Juste]

I'm very surprised to see you say this.

Very surprised.

Would anyone disagree? Moyes' biggest club was Man Utd, Allardyces was West Ham!

And both were punted from those jobs.

Or, indeed Newcastle, who sacked him fairly quickly.

 

[Stevencc]

But I'm English and therefore better than all of the Scottish managers you mentioned in your post above and I bet you wouldn't be happy to see me managing Scotland, would you, you petty little man?

 

[JimJams]

That's the barometer then? Who got punted from the biggest job. Besides which Fat Sam didn't get punted from West Ham.

Di Matteo got punted from a big job at Chelsea and that was after delivering a CL and FA cup. Best of the 3?

 

[St. Juste]

But I'm English and therefore better than all of the Scottish managers you mentioned in your post above and I bet you wouldn't be happy to see me managing Scotland, would you, you petty little man?

What on earth are you on about?

This is an utterly baffling post.

That's the barometer then? Who got punted from the biggest job. Besides which Fat Sam didn't get punted from West Ham.

Di Matteo got punted from a big job at Chelsea and that was after delivering a CL and FA cup. Best of the 3?

To be fair, you can use pretty much any metric you want and Moyes would still come out on top. He earned the Man Utd job because of his significant achievements at Everton, don't think Allardyce was considered.....I wonder why.

Fat Sam absolutely did get punted from West Ham, he even wrote newspaper articles saying how desperate he was to renew his contract, but they let it run out and improved when they took on Billic.

 

[Stevencc]

Would you or would you not be happy to see me, an English football manager of a higher standard than the potential Scottish candidates, managing your Scottish national side?

Yes or no.

 

[Pagnell]

What on earth are you on about?

This is an utterly baffling post.



To be fair, you can use pretty much any metric you want and Moyes would still come out on top. He earned the Man Utd job because of his significant achievements at Everton, don't think Allardyce was considered.....I wonder why.

Fat Sam absolutely did get punted from West Ham, he even wrote newspaper articles saying how desperate he was to renew his contract, but they let it run out and improved when they took on Billic.

Moyes didn't earn the United job, he was given it entirely on the basis of Ferguson wanting him to have it. I've no idea what Rudolph was thinking, one of the biggest teams in the world employing a manager who'd won fuck all in a decade of top flight football and had a negative attitude towards playing style was always going to end badly.

Let me ask you, you talk about earning it, but what had Moyes done at Everton which made him appear even vaguely suitable to what was expected at United?

 

[Stevencc]

Moyes didn't earn the United job, he was given it entirely in the basis of Ferguson wanting him to have it. I've no idea what Rudolph was thinking, one of the biggest teams in the world employing a manager who'd won fuck all in a decade of top flight football and had a negative attitude towards playing style was always going to end badly.

Let me ask you, what had Moyes done at Everton which made him appear even vaguely suitable to what was expected at United?

Fergie was thinking exactly what St. Juste is thinking.

It's a little bit like the Freemasons but a Scottish version. Fergie actually argued for Rab C Nesbitt to takeover from Moyes but was shot down by the board.

Hence why St. Juste is being a petty little man in not answering my question.

 

[PDS]

We are on for Derby's points total at the moment, I honestly don't know where our next win will come from. At the end of last season I was confident that we wouldn't be in this situation again, we had a great team spirit and Allardyce had us organised. Moyes has come and we are now back to square one. I was quite happy when Moyes was appointed but jesus wept he's dour, football wise and personality.

It's alright, you have us on Saturday. We are incredibly good at helping teams end their bad runs.

 

[Stevencc]

“It’s damning, I agree,” Moyes added. “It does make me feel lousy, and I do. I don’t feel good about it but you’ve got to take it. I probably spend Saturday night, and quite often, in a darkened room somewhere.

“Sunday gets a wee bit better, but not much, and hopefully by the time Monday morning comes, you are ready to go again.

“You’ve got to get it out of the system and you are up and running again. And I’ll do that again on Monday.”

 

[smat]

I think this is a great piece on Moyes and I agree with most of it: http://www.joe.co.uk/sport/sunderla...hey-risk-being-this-seasons-aston-villa/95415

He should stay in charge and build Sunderland an identity. Their squad is an awful mish-mash of half a dozen managers' ideas. Yes they'll probably go down, but look at Newcastle. It doesn't look like it's doing them any harm. They've got a good manager who is being allowed to build the team in his image and they'll almost certainly be back in the Premier League next season, stronger than they were when they went down.

 

[SALTIRE]

Moyes is no Rafa though.

 

[GodsGift]

I think this is a great piece on Moyes and I agree with most of it: http://www.joe.co.uk/sport/sunderla...hey-risk-being-this-seasons-aston-villa/95415

He should stay in charge and build Sunderland an identity. Their squad is an awful mish-mash of half a dozen managers' ideas. Yes they'll probably go down, but look at Newcastle. It doesn't look like it's doing them any harm. They've got a good manager who is being allowed to build the team in his image and they'll almost certainly be back in the Premier League next season, stronger than they were when they went down.

I'm not so sure it's a certainty Sunderland would return straight away. I think they're more likely to "do a Villa" rather than a Newcastle, so to speak. But I agree in principle, relegation is probably the best thing that could happen to Sunderland right now - especially for the fans, who would actually enjoy filling out away ends in the Championship and see their side win more games than they lose for the first time in however long.

 

[DarkSithLord]

I think this is a great piece on Moyes and I agree with most of it: http://www.joe.co.uk/sport/sunderla...hey-risk-being-this-seasons-aston-villa/95415

He should stay in charge and build Sunderland an identity. Their squad is an awful mish-mash of half a dozen managers' ideas. Yes they'll probably go down, but look at Newcastle. It doesn't look like it's doing them any harm. They've got a good manager who is being allowed to build the team in his image and they'll almost certainly be back in the Premier League next season, stronger than they were when they went down.

This ^^.

 

[smat]

I'm not so sure it's a certainty Sunderland would return straight away. I think they're more likely to "do a Villa" rather than a Newcastle, so to speak. But I agree in principle, relegation is probably the best thing that could happen to Sunderland right now - especially for the fans, who would actually enjoy filling out away ends in the Championship and see their side win more games than they lose for the first time in however long.

True, it's a hard league to get out of, as they say, but with a profile and ground of that size it's fairly inevitable they'd make it back up eventually. It's also inevitable that if they keep changing manager every six months, they will go down. Sooner rather than later. So they should cut to the chase rather than delay it. The headline point from the article to me was this:

There is no prospect of building a team that can be competitive in the long term because all that matters is the here and now. There is also no possibility of building the kind of momentum that Rafael Benitez is overseeing at Newcastle United because the standard of opposition is too high to allow that. It is a grim, self-perpetuating existence that needs to be broken and in the absence of the kind of investment and boardroom leadership that could transform their fortunes, the only way that can happen is if Sunderland drop down to the Championship and rebuild from there.

 

[St. Juste]

Would you or would you not be happy to see me, an English football manager of a higher standard than the potential Scottish candidates, managing your Scottish national side?

Yes or no.

Absolutely.

It would be no issue to me whatsoever if they were English.

Just a pity there are really no good English coaches.

Moyes didn't earn the United job, he was given it entirely on the basis of Ferguson wanting him to have it. I've no idea what Rudolph was thinking, one of the biggest teams in the world employing a manager who'd won fuck all in a decade of top flight football and had a negative attitude towards playing style was always going to end badly.

Let me ask you, you talk about earning it, but what had Moyes done at Everton which made him appear even vaguely suitable to what was expected at United?

You have to look in the context of what other candidates were available at the time, Moyes would have been a contender even without the influence of SAF, and yes that may have tipped the balance, but he was a highly thought and regarded coaches in the Premier League whilst at Everton. And also, by the way, one of the highest paid. In hindsight his hiring can be viewed as a mistake, as can that of LVG and (as it increasingly looks) Mourinho. I don't think Man Utd can move forward until they accept that SAF was a miracle worker and the squad he won his last title with were actually ridden with weaknesses. Whilst Moyes made plenty of mistakes after that, I don't think the inherent weakness of the squad was really accepted, but the managers following him have confirmed it.

I think the question is more, who else would you have hired in his place? Unless you were looking outside of England to a manager without PL experience - where were the good candidates?

Fergie was thinking exactly what St. Juste is thinking.
It's a little bit like the Freemasons but a Scottish version. Fergie actually argued for Rab C Nesbitt to takeover from Moyes but was shot down by the board.
Hence why St. Juste is being a petty little man in not answering my question.

Oh right, hadn't realised that was the question. Would I mind you managing Scotland? Probably, I don't know if you have any managerial experience.

But were you Brian Clough following his spell at Nottingham Forest? Yes, I would have him as Scotland manager.

 

[Stevencc]

Thanks for answering my question.

I'll write to the Scottish FA to inform them of my interest in the post.

 

[Pagnell]

You have to look in the context of what other candidates were available at the time, Moyes would have been a contender even without the influence of SAF, and yes that may have tipped the balance, but he was a highly thought and regarded coaches in the Premier League whilst at Everton. And also, by the way, one of the highest paid. In hindsight his hiring can be viewed as a mistake, as can that of LVG and (as it increasingly looks) Mourinho. I don't think Man Utd can move forward until they accept that SAF was a miracle worker and the squad he won his last title with were actually ridden with weaknesses. Whilst Moyes made plenty of mistakes after that, I don't think the inherent weakness of the squad was really accepted, but the managers following him have confirmed it.

Nah, no way would Moyes have been a candidate if not for him being pushed forward for the role by Ferguson. You're kidding yourself. What you're effectively expecting me to buy into is that one of the biggest clubs in world football, a club which had gone no more than a couple of seasons without winning major trophies over the previous two decades, and that was a regular power in European football, would have considered hiring someone who had no winning experience whatsoever beyond promotion from the second tier and whose Champions League experience was negligible at best? What happened with Moyes was entirely predictable.

I think the question is more, who else would you have hired in his place? Unless you were looking outside of England to a manager without PL experience - where were the good candidates?

It's United. They could have had anyone had they made a move. Pretty much any manager with a winning mentality and major trophies under his belt would have been a better option.