The Labour Thread

[JaseTheVillain]

I don't think they're significant. Bunch of anime nerds/ shut-ins and knuckle dragging degenerates.

Oi! I take offence to that.

 

[Jockney]

The last few weeks have seen the far-right separately mobilise several thousand people - in London this weekend and Manchester a couple of weeks back.

It's clear that the vast majority of the people marching as the Football Lads Alliance or UK Against Hate aren't hardcore fascists or even hardcore racists. The fact that they are organising via "Oppose Bad Things" fronts to an extent shows their weakness.

But at the moment, there's not been anything like a co-ordinated anti-fascist response nor is it clear who or what can organise mass antifascism on the scale to oppose this.

I didn't even know the FLA march had happened until after the fact, and most of the people I've spoken to don't know much about them (I think their FB page is private). There was a separate EDL gathering that had pitiful numbers, going on photos. I'm not sure how effectively you can mobilise against a group that is at once very opaque and constituted by disparate right-wing, traditionalist and even apolitical tendencies without fuelling the fire.

So I suppose the question is, FLA: the beginnings of a smarter, more flexible far-right movement or a slightly underwhelming attempt to ape the model of the Stop the War Coalition? Both?

 

[AFCB_Mark]

I didn't even know the FLA march had happened until after the fact, and most of the people I've spoken to don't know much about them (I think their FB page is private). There was a separate EDL gathering that had pitiful numbers, going on photos. I'm not sure how effectively you can mobilise against a group that is at once very opaque and constituted by disparate right-wing, traditionalist and even apolitical tendencies without fuelling the fire.

So I suppose the question is, FLA: the beginnings of a smarter, more flexible far-right movement or a slightly underwhelming attempt to ape the model of the Stop the War Coalition? Both?

A quick look shows Football Lads Alliance / Unite against Extremism has a public twitter account showing loads of pictures and videos from their march. They boast that "10,000 marched without a single arrest". Mostly London football clubs support (so they purport) - West Ham, Arsenal, Spurs, Millwall all mentioned/photographed - you might be interested to hear Jockney.

 

[Dave]

Mostly London football clubs support (so they purport) - West Ham, Arsenal, Spurs, Millwall all mentioned/photographed - you might be interested to hear Jockney.

A big Tottenham turnout for it. I got invited along by a few people and the talk from the few I know that went was it was a brilliant turnout, much better than expected but after that they expected a bit more media attention, the 20 odd EDL got far more coverage than the approx 12k FLA!

 

[GodsGift]

A big Tottenham turnout for it. I got invited along by a few people and the talk from the few I know that went was it was a brilliant turnout, much better than expected but after that they expected a bit more media attention, the 20 odd EDL got far more coverage than the approx 12k FLA!

I don't really get the point of it. Surely we all agree that terrorism and extremism is bad?

 

[Abertawe]

Sad bastards come to mind. What exactly are they marching for?

 

[smat]

The Football Lads Alliance sounds problematic to me... excluding women much?

 

[Dave]

I don't really get the point of it. Surely we all agree that terrorism and extremism is bad?

From what I gather it was mainly aimed at the London based firms to come together and show they're united against extremism whilst being led by that Milwall fan who was stabbed fighting off the 3 at Borough Market. Requests for no England flags etc so they weren't branded a racist march! No club colours or chants, just everyone together.

The next one is currently 7th October but they're planning another one between now and then which they're expecting to be much bigger and harder for the media to ignore.

 

[Abertawe]

The media to ignore what though?

 

[TheMinsterman]

I don't really get the point of it. Surely we all agree that terrorism and extremism is bad?

There's a bizarre narrative in right leaning circles that the "left" don't take it seriously enough or they are terrorist sympathisers, so there's definitely the idea floating around that we don't all dislike terrorism, which is patently bollocks.

It seems to be a misunderstanding of attempting to understand the motives and the nuances behind it rather than shrieking "string em all up" that gets confused with apologetics when it isn't justifying terror.

You also have the "religion of peace" stuff they bring up constantly, despite that fact it's fairly obvious that sort of political message is a desperate attempt to stop people blaming any Muslim citizen from bigots who love to scaremonger. Is it shallow and ineffectual? Yes. Yet it's not a sinister endorsement of extremism either.

 

[Jockney]

A quick look shows Football Lads Alliance / Unite against Extremism has a public twitter account showing loads of pictures and videos from their march. They boast that "10,000 marched without a single arrest". Mostly London football clubs support (so they purport) - West Ham, Arsenal, Spurs, Millwall all mentioned/photographed - you might be interested to hear Jockney.

From what I gather it was mainly aimed at the London based firms to come together and show they're united against extremism whilst being led by that Milwall fan who was stabbed fighting off the 3 at Borough Market. Requests for no England flags etc so they weren't branded a racist march! No club colours or chants, just everyone together.

The next one is currently 7th October but they're planning another one between now and then which they're expecting to be much bigger and harder for the media to ignore.

I know broadly who, how and why they are, just not what they are (yet). It's common knowledge that the march was set up by a group of Spurs fans and the turnout was fairly big because football firms across the country mobilised in support. If they're planning another one for October then saturday seems less like a commemoration and more a dry run for a bigger right-wing movement. It's basic recruitment strategy, isn't it?

 

[Stagat]

"Football Lads Alliance"

 

[Dave]

I know broadly who, how and why they are, just not what they are (yet). It's common knowledge that the march was set up by a group of Spurs fans and the turnout was fairly big because football firms across the country mobilised in support. If they're planning another one for October then saturday seems less like a commemoration and more a dry run for a bigger right-wing movement. It's basic recruitment strategy, isn't it?

That's what people are saying is going to happen, they also thought that was what was going to happen on Saturday and many places thought the FLA and EDL were planning on joining forces, this was strongly denied by the few conversations I saw where they were trying to get more people to come along. The few people I saw drumming up support were also pretty clear that the march was more of a silent march and they just want numbers to turn out to show their support.

I don't really know what their aim is from this, all I've seen since the weekends is quotes such as: "The next march is the 7th October but we are planning something before that and if it comes off it will be thie biggest coup ever".

 

[Abertawe]

That's what people are saying is going to happen, they also thought that was what was going to happen on Saturday and many places thought the FLA and EDL were planning on joining forces, this was strongly denied by the few conversations I saw where they were trying to get more people to come along. The few people I saw drumming up support were also pretty clear that the march was more of a silent march and they just want numbers to turn out to show their support.

I don't really know what their aim is from this, all I've seen since the weekends is quotes such as: "The next march is the 7th October but we are planning something before that and if it comes off it will be thie biggest coup ever".

Please help me. Show their support for what?

 

[Dave]

Please help me. Show their support for what?

I don't know.

 

[Abertawe]

I don't know.

So did they march outside the Saudi & Israeli embassies then?

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

I know broadly who, how and why they are, just not what they are (yet). It's common knowledge that the march was set up by a group of Spurs fans and the turnout was fairly big because football firms across the country mobilised in support. If they're planning another one for October then saturday seems less like a commemoration and more a dry run for a bigger right-wing movement. It's basic recruitment strategy, isn't it?

It's pretty obviously a front for resurrecting an islamophobic street movement and the people getting involved because it's "working class lads making a stand" are desperately naive.

This bears many of the hallmarks of the initial incarnation of the EDL - before it splintered; the attempts to build a coalition of slightly disparate Islamophobic groups - like the Sikh Awareness Society, the attempts to distance themselves from other far-right organisations, and organising through networks like football firms.

Challenge is to oppose that in and of itself without falling into the UAF trap of labelling the whole thing "Nazis". Or, hopefully, without involving the UAF in any capacity at all.

 

[Jockney]

Challenge is to oppose that in and of itself without falling into the UAF trap of labelling the whole thing "Nazis". Or, hopefully, without involving the UAF in any capacity at all.

Yes, but maybe not so much naivete as a much easier convergence of ideas and interests. The BNP and UKIP have collapsed, the EDL and Britain First are spent, and the entire spectrum of the right has flocked to the Conservative Party; that seems like a big discursive problem for anti-racism engagement with the traditionally moderate conservative elements but also the right-inclined but otherwise apolitical.

The dynamics of the British far-right is not my strong suit, so you can probably make more sense out of this analytically than I can, but in a moment as polarised as this one (and, troublingly, I think that polarisation is more cultural than political), where political rationality is exposed as a naked lie, how do you counter the spread of far-right radicalism from a positive position instead of a negative one: i.e. not just what is wrong with it, but also locating and delivering an effective counter-narrative.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

Well Hugh Gaffney's a good sport...

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

By the way this is a decent analysis of the FLA

https://londonantifascists.wordpres...sis-of-fla-demo-in-london-saturday-24th-june/

 

[Aber gas]

https://twitter.com/samcoatestimes/status/883068291819941888



It'll go higher

 

[.V.]

https://twitter.com/samcoatestimes/status/883068291819941888



It'll go higher

Give it up mate, no one trusts the polls

 

[Look Out There Are Llamas]

I trust Survation only. Who incidentally have the Tories on a 1 point lead.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

I trust Survation only. Who incidentally have the Tories on a 1 point lead.

Yougov had it closest last time to be fair.

 

[Aber gas]

I trust Survation only. Who incidentally have the Tories on a 1 point lead.

 

[Look Out There Are Llamas]

Yougov had it closest last time to be fair.

They bottled it at the end.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/06/07/final-call-poll-tories-seven-points-and-set-increa/

 

[Abertawe]

Survation actually called 2015 better than above anyone else too but they bottled publishing it http://survation.com/snatching-defeat-from-the-jaws-of-victory

I think Qriously will ultimately take over the polling game in terms of accuracy in the future unless the others adapt.

 

[Look Out There Are Llamas]

Although if YouGov is right, and I think right now it's a big if, imagine an election was called tomorrow, my Lord and saviour BoJo would be predicted to lose his seat.

(Not that I expect an election for a long time).

 

[Renegade]

Guys, we don't need to speak about polls for potentially another few years. Enjoy this moment.

 

[Aber gas]

Guys, we don't need to speak about polls for potentially another few years. Enjoy this moment.

I like talking about polls.