League 1 v league 2. Talking standards now.

hold'um Oldham

Active Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2015
Messages
739
Reaction score
80
Points
28
Location
Oldham
Supports
Oldham
All I ever heard before we were relegated was that the standard between the league's wasn't noticeable. There is my much difference between the two.

A decent enough chunk of the season has gone now, and I have to say I disagree entirely. This isn't to say we are steam hollering the league and anyone who should get in our way - we have cut our cloth according to our means, but I have to say the difference in quality is obvious.

I include ourselves now when I say this, but I am yet to see any real quality this season. We would regularly be facing the likes of Sheff u, Blackburn, Bolton, Wigan, etc, and even the midtable and lower teams had something about them. It was possibly the bottom six or so that were really poor. The league as a whole though held far more quality.

What are others thoughts?
 

shoddycollins

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
11,445
Reaction score
3,529
Points
113
Location
In the Paul Simpson wonderland
Supports
Carlisle United
I agree, I think there's not much between the bottom half of League One and League Two, with the sizes of some of the teams who have established themselves in the Championship before ending up in League One now I'd say the big jump in quality happens half-way up League One, and the next big jump after that happens about four or five places from the bottom of the Premiership.
 

Luke Imp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
12,419
Reaction score
2,883
Points
113
Location
Lincoln
Supports
Lincoln City
I was saying to GodsGift on here or over Twitter the other month that I felt L2 to L1 was a decent jump. He'll have a decent insight as a neutral because he covers Blackpool.

Maybe not the bottom 8 or so, but L1 seems to be the one where you start to get the really good sides (probably a more 'footballing' division) and bigger sides who're having a hard time (a Leeds, Sheffield United, Southampton, Blackburn, Charlton, Sunderland etc etc).

The gap between the biggest and smallest budget is probably bigger, too.
 

valefan16

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
14,898
Reaction score
2,183
Points
113
Supports
Port Vale
When we won promotion from league two back to league one the jump in quality was obvious and even the spells that we weren’t winning although finished top ten most fans were just happy to watch better quality matches.
 

KeithH

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2015
Messages
1,091
Reaction score
345
Points
83
Supports
1885 Bury
The gap is pretty big, we seem decent in this league, dire last year.
 

KeithH

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2015
Messages
1,091
Reaction score
345
Points
83
Supports
1885 Bury
That said football is all about momentum and if you keep that the gap seems not to exist, it's keeping the bugger when you go up thats the hard part.
 

Moomin

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
2,375
Reaction score
512
Points
113
Location
Exeter
Supports
ECFC
That said football is all about momentum and if you keep that the gap seems not to exist, it's keeping the bugger when you go up thats the hard part.
I agree with this. If you go up from L2 and retain your best players, recruit well then you can certainly still progress in L1, which has been proven over the years.

I think it’s more about when you’re struggling in L1, you would naturally be the losing side quite often and then struggle to hold onto a number of your better players if you go down. But as long as you retain players with a good work ethic/ attitude plus the odd talented player you can do pretty well in L2. That’s when the gap is more noticeable imo.
 

ValiantRob

Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
142
Reaction score
23
Points
18
Location
newcastle under lyme
Supports
Port Vale
There has always been a big gap but the last few years it seems the lower half of league 1 has been terrible and certainly in 2016/17 when we were relegated, all of the bottom 8 were crap and wouldn`t have been above half way in league 2.
 

Hurrikeen

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2014
Messages
2,503
Reaction score
719
Points
113
Location
Stalybridge, Cheshire
Supports
Oldham Athletic
Twitter
@Hurrikeen
The football I have watched so far this season - and I include us in that bracket on occasions - has been absolutely terrible.

Morecambe in the 2nd half was about as good as I've seen from an opposing team and that was nothing to rave about.
 

hold'um Oldham

Active Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2015
Messages
739
Reaction score
80
Points
28
Location
Oldham
Supports
Oldham
Obviously I'm a novice at this level, with it being my first year here, but is this a particularly poor season or is it always this bad?
 

localhero

Active Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
428
Reaction score
144
Points
43
Supports
Tranmere
The football I have watched so far this season - and I include us in that bracket on occasions - has been absolutely terrible.

Morecambe in the 2nd half was about as good as I've seen from an opposing team and that was nothing to rave about.

I've been shocked this season at how good the standard of football has been. Teams actually trying to play football instead of time wasting from the very first minute. I'd assume that says more about non league than League Two though.
 

GodsGift

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
3,538
Reaction score
1,774
Points
113
Location
Lancashire
Supports
Lincoln City
It's a tiresome debate which crops up every season, irrespective of what division you're in. Yes, of course the standard of League Two is worse than League One, I'd be worried if it wasn't. Surprise surprise, the Conference is worse than League Two as well.

Generally speaking, promoted sides from L2 will initially fare well in L1 due to momentum, but you'll need a bit of backing/big crowds/decent budget to compete at the top end. So you're looking at the likes of Plymouth and Pompey, who just missed out on the play-offs last season and Luton this year, who will probably be in and around it. This season you've currently got Accrington in 10th, Luton in 11th, Coventry in 12th and Wycombe in 19th. I'd expect Accrington to drop off (but still stay up), Coventry to remain in mid table and Wycombe will do well to stay up.

The top 6 or 7 in League One are strong, there's very little to split the sides in mid-table and those at the bottom are interchangeable with most of the top sides in League Two. Again, that's a pattern that is applicable to pretty much every league apart from the Prem. If Lincoln were in League One this season I'd expect us to stay up pretty comfortably and would be safe in mid table, similar to Coventry. We've got a strong squad but technically, it's not up to scratch for what is needed to push on into the top half of the division. We're not a million miles away though, which is encouraging.
 
Last edited:

jbet

Active Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Messages
318
Reaction score
71
Points
28
Location
Manila
Supports
Port Vale
I wen to Sunderland v Fleetwood the other week and the difference in standard to this league was massive.
 

WhiteRussian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2015
Messages
1,157
Reaction score
293
Points
83
Location
Milton Keynes
Supports
MK Dons
Momentum, or lack of it is a major issue.

We were standard league 1 promotion contenders for a good few seasons. Then got promoted and screwed that up terribly. So were relegated followed by a tumble down the leagues which I suppose is reverse momentum :ffs:.

I think it wasn't so much the team, or the quality but the manager(s). We got rid of Karl Robinson and brought in people with no knowledge of lower league football and they failed drastically. Now we have Tisdale to steady the ship.

So while there is a difference it isn't great (unless talking about the big boys), it's about momentum and managers as much as squad.

So does that mean if we get promoted we should chuck Tisdale and get a confirmed league on manager :pond: F*cked if I know!!!!
 

valefan16

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
14,898
Reaction score
2,183
Points
113
Supports
Port Vale
Money isn’t everything as Burton proved and Yeovil a couple of years prior but it helps.

We all talk about the money say Lincoln have spent but in the league above plenty of teams would blow that out the water and they’d not be able to finance their way out of it without big big investment.

To sum it up a few seasons back Wigan had a modest start but were in and around the play offs so they just spent a million quid like that in January and promptly won the league.

Bolton who we faced had for example players on more than our entire starting XI (Wheater). Wolves again had a huge budget and I dare say Sunderland won’t be struggling to finance in January if needed.

One big problem I have is the parachute payments... teams such as Sunderland come down on big parachute payments which IMO should be stopped if you go down again. You simply don’t need millions in league one and should be forced to cut the cloth accordingly.

Only really Sheffield United came down and struggled to make a return for years with decent money and so forth so the standard is difficult if you plan to try and get another promotion.

That said we had modest budgets in our four seasons back there and finished two of them in the top half.
 

King Kev

Active Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Messages
741
Reaction score
145
Points
43
Location
Bury
Supports
Bury
That said football is all about momentum and if you keep that the gap seems not to exist, it's keeping the bugger when you go up thats the hard part.

Something that idiot Flitcroft failed to maintain, this led to three depressing years of big expenditure but depressing football.
 

Indian Dan

‘Absolute calamity!’
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
10,157
Reaction score
3,324
Points
113
Location
Corsham
Supports
Swindon
Once you’ve got relegated from L1 you have to get out real quick otherwise you’ll get sucked into what is the utter shiteness which is L2. We are tottering on the cusp at the moment, unsure whether we’re any good or not. Another season down here and we could be here for a while.
 

ValiantRob

Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
142
Reaction score
23
Points
18
Location
newcastle under lyme
Supports
Port Vale
I think in the bottom 2 divisions there is such a big turnover of players each season that if any team gets their recruitment wrong, they can have a fall from grace. This is even more dramatic in League 2 than L1( ask Chesterfield fans).
Sometimes this can mean that the worst sides in L1 are as bad if not worse than the strugglers in L2 and you quite often see a double relegation within a year or two such as Wrexham and Hartlepool suffered.
 

The_Viking_Magpie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
Messages
4,344
Reaction score
574
Points
113
Location
Nottingham/London
Supports
Notts County FC
Sadly it’s a little too long ago for me to remember. My assumption is the higher up the pyramid you go , the bigger the Jump. Seems logical to me
 

TrinidadsNumberOne

Gizza job?
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
3,146
Reaction score
908
Points
113
Location
Crewe/Macclesfield
Supports
Crewe
Probably best to make judgements about the league after you've played each of the teams at least once. I mean Oldham's wins have come against Crawley, Morecambe, Grimsby and Macclesfield after all. Four sides who I reckon will be no higher than lower mid-table come the season's end. You've obviously had a kind start to the season on the fixture list bar MK on opening day, but that'll change as the season pans out.

Once you look past the likes of Sunderland, Barnsley, Peterborough and Portsmouth in League One, four sides who, barring a spectacular financial crisis, won't ever be coming down to this level again anytime soon, any one of the sides below those four could easily come down to this level again. A lot of clubs in League One aren't out of place in League Two and vice versa. But everything is about momentum. In 2015, Chesterfield finished 6th in League One and attempted to get promotion to the Championship. Fast forward just over 3 years and Chesterfield are 4 points off the drop to the Conference North after a dismal run of 8 games without a win and scoring 1 goal in over 500 minutes of non league football. 2 divisions above them, Accrington Stanley have only lost once all season in a very competitive League One despite having the lowest budget in the division and a budget probably lower than Chesterfield's is in the Conference!
 

Soup Ladle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2015
Messages
4,712
Reaction score
2,466
Points
113
Supports
Hartlepool
I noticed a fairly big gap when we were in L1 compared to L2. More 'football' was played and the top 6 always had some quality players. It wasn't perfect football on the deck but more of it, typically there'd be some nice passages of play with the final ball lacking. Plenty of aimless hoofball too but not on L2's level. I'd say the lower parts of L1 are pretty poor sides and wouldn't be much better than mid table L2, maybe worse.

On the other hand, it's hard to believe how much worse the Conference is than L2. I couldn't bear watching us in our maiden season there last year, it was that bad. Second season you get sucked in to thinking 'oh yeah Harrogate were really good at ours in August', last season I wouldn't be saying that. They're not a really good side by anyone else's standards apart from the tinpottery of that level. If you think L2 is bad, come down here. Be happy to swap places.
 

Franchisor

Active Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2016
Messages
436
Reaction score
79
Points
28
Location
UK
Supports
Milton Keynes Dons
As someone who watched 30 L1 games last season and has watched all but 2 of our games this season in L2, there is a MASSIVE difference.

No big or standout teams in L2 this season who are punching below their weight. Last season we played the likes of Blackburn and Wigan who were clearly Championship level and playing in L1. Players like Adam Armstrong, Will Grigg, Bradley Dack etc were at times unplayable - there isn't anyone like that in L2.

Also looking at the rest of the teams in L1, the average quality is much higher. L2 feels like anyone can beat anyone this year, and none of the "top" teams/frontrunners really look miles ahead of others, compared to L1.

Last few seasons there have been massive or dominant teams in L2 (Portsmouth, Coventry etc), this season is the first in a while without anyone like that.
 

The_Viking_Magpie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
Messages
4,344
Reaction score
574
Points
113
Location
Nottingham/London
Supports
Notts County FC
Coventry ? Dominate? Only at the all important business end of the season. For half the season they stuttered.

Gap between L2 and L1 is smaller than L1 to Championship and bigger than L2 to Conference

The end
 

RLC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
1,811
Reaction score
710
Points
113
Location
Upton, Wirral
Supports
Tranmere Rovers
Gap between L2 and L1 is smaller than L1 to Championship and bigger than L2 to Conference

The end
I doubt it, to be honest. The gap between this division and the one below is enormous.

In our three years in the National League, even in the period when we were managed by Gary Brabin, we swotted aside 90% of our opponents, with a lot of games effectively won within the first thirty minutes. In that division the top sides can guarantee victory from all but a handful of games, and it is only the matches against your three or four closest rivals that are really competitive and decide who ultimately wins the league.

In League Two the standard is far better and far more uniform. You could put a cigarette paper between ourselves and virtually all of our opponents this season.
 

The_Viking_Magpie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
Messages
4,344
Reaction score
574
Points
113
Location
Nottingham/London
Supports
Notts County FC
Interesting thoughts RLC, problem is it’s very rare for a club to have been in all three divisions (L1,L2,NL) in recent times. Tranmere are one of the rare examples that qualify.

You have to remember some current L2 sides haven’t been in the third tier for over 25 years!!! Some never have at all. :bye:So naturally they won’t be able to comment, same applies with teams who havent played in the NL#stain for a long time or ever.

I hope , personally, I’m not in a position to judge any time soon :mell::sad:
 
Last edited:

Greenacres

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
2,392
Reaction score
1,062
Points
113
Location
West Country
Supports
Forest Green Rovers
The gap between this division and the one below is enormous.

In that division the top sides can guarantee victory from all but a handful of games, and it is only the matches against your three or four closest rivals that are really competitive and decide who ultimately wins the league.

In League Two the standard is far better and far more uniform. You could put a cigarette paper between ourselves and virtually all of our opponents this season.

Apologies to RLC, I have chopped out the bits of their post that seemed to apply purely to Tranmere but find myself in almost total agreement with the rest.

I think we were surprised with the quality in Division Two when we were promoted. Ironically our first game in the League was against Barnet, we played really well in the first half, the standard was high and I was looking forward to a really competitive season and decent football. If ever there was a false dawn that was it, we struggled to compete for vast parts of the season and they ended up being relegated.

This season standards are fairly similar, I have seen us play against a few other teams and the margins have been small, probably why we have drawn so many games. Substitutions really can count, when Swindon brought on Elijah Adebayo and Port Vale introduced Ricky Miller we really struggled to cope, if they had played from the start the results might have been different. I have only seen one team play against us this season, so far, who I thought we struggled to contain and that was Oldham. They reminded me of Luton from a couple of years ago, during the season they were promoted from the National League. There was an element of intimidation about their game, not nice to watch but could prove effective over a season.
 
Last edited:

UTS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2015
Messages
1,955
Reaction score
410
Points
83
Location
Bury
Supports
Bury
Look at us for example, bottom of league one last season and struggled for a few seasons there, League Two we seem to have found our feet.

The gap in quality will change every year depending on numerous factors. League One is filled will what you would class as ‘good league Two ’ teams.

However, look at Chesterfield, Tranmere and Stockport who fell straight through... or on the other side, Burton, Rochdale and Plymouth who seem comfortable in L1. Accrington have made a solid start in L1 too but again it’s about momentum.
 

Luke Imp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
12,419
Reaction score
2,883
Points
113
Location
Lincoln
Supports
Lincoln City
I doubt it, to be honest. The gap between this division and the one below is enormous.

In League Two the standard is far better and far more uniform. You could put a cigarette paper between ourselves and virtually all of our opponents this season.
I think you'll find that as a newly promoted side, we did last season, although in our opening game of the season last year against Morecambe, we absolutely battered them. Biggest difference was the quality in goalkeeping.

As you get better, either this season or next season, you'll find that there's still a decent difference between sides at the top and bottom. At the minute, you're probably a mid-table side so you'll see the minimum amount of difference between yourselves and either end of the table.

Early days, but using Lincoln vs Notts as an example, and perhaps it was an anomaly, that game was as easy at top vs bottom in the NL in terms of the gap between the sides. Last week against Macclesfield was similar, albeit not the scoreline to reflect that.
 

The_Viking_Magpie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
Messages
4,344
Reaction score
574
Points
113
Location
Nottingham/London
Supports
Notts County FC
Individual examples verge on being pointless.

Tbh it’s an interesting debate but seriously who cares how big the jump or fall is between divisions. A lot depends on the circumstances on and off the field at each individual example
 

Casey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2015
Messages
3,034
Reaction score
753
Points
113
Location
Creepy
Supports
Creepy
I will agree each division has its level but as a rule of thumb the bottom of a division is on a par with mid table in the division below and the top of the table is on a par with mid table in the division above.

What I noticed on the rise to league one and drop back to league two was the speed of the attack increases as you go further up. One second you are in good position the next you are frantically defending your box. Not counter attacking as such just the ability to move the ball at pace increases and also the ruthlessness of teams is more noticeable. Mistakes are punished.

Casey
 

Forum statistics

Threads
16,422
Messages
1,190,030
Members
8,390
Latest member
rednwhite socks

Latest posts

Stronger Security, Faster Connections with VPN at IPVanish.com!

SITE SPONSORS

W88 W88 trang chu KUBET Thailand
Fun88 12Bet Get top UK casino bonuses for British players in casinos not on GamStop
The best ₤1 minimum deposit casinos UK not on GamStop Find the best new no deposit casino get bonus and play legendary slots Best UK online casinos list 2022
No-Verification.Casino Casinos that accept PayPal Top online casinos
sure.bet
Need help with your academic papers? Customwritings offers high-quality professionals to write essays that deserve an A!
Top