Rooney returns...

[St. Juste]

Good to be proven right on my earlier posts in this thread.

Rooney, through his own poor professionalism, has seen his career nose dive years before it should do.

In the context of the Premier League his professionalism is certainly below average - worse players will need to work harder.

It looks like my prediction will be right - outscored in his 30s by Jon Walters, Peter Crouch, Jermaine Defore and (a new one) Glenn Murray. Who saw this at 16?

 

[Pagnell]

Absolutely Hugh, you really stuck your neck out there and deserve much credit for the prediction.

 

[Stevencc]

Good to be proven right on my earlier posts in this thread.

Rooney, through his own poor professionalism, has seen his career nose dive years before it should do.

In the context of the Premier League his professionalism is certainly below average - worse players will need to work harder.

It looks like my prediction will be right - outscored in his 30s by Jon Walters, Peter Crouch, Jermaine Defore and (a new one) Glenn Murray. Who saw this at 16?

You?

 

[Pagnell]

Is he referring to Rooney's age or the predictor's? I doubt Hugh was ever 16 years old. He was born an adult.

 

[Bilo]

Rooney, through his own poor professionalism

Lucky he's white, otherwise they'd say his birth certificate was falsified.

 

[Lance Stoe]

The prostitutes in Washington will be over the moon.

 

[markwwfc1992]

One of the best players to ever play in the Premier League, England and Man Utd's record goalscorer.... and he still gets people who slag him off.

Unbelievable really.

 

[Lance Stoe]

One of the best players to ever play in the Premier League, England and Man Utd's record goalscorer.... and he still gets people who slag him off.

Unbelievable really.

That’s because of the way he treated his lassie Colleen. A fantastic footballer but a man who possesses questionable integrity. He smokes for heavens sake and he knocked out Michael Gray

 

[markwwfc1992]

That’s because of the way he treated his lassie Colleen. A fantastic footballer but a man who possesses questionable integrity. He smokes for heavens sake and he knocked out Michael Gray

Judge him on his footballing ability, and what he has done in the game. I couldn't give a toss about who he wants relationships with to be honest.

 

[Johnnyt]

Yep he out scored Charlton, Greaves, Shearer,Linekar, Owen and Finney for England.

but hes shit.

pmsl

 

[Pagnell]

Lineker - 48 goals in 80 games.
Greaves - 44 goals in 57 games.
Rooney - 53 goals in 119 games.

I know which ones I find more impressive.

 

[markwwfc1992]

Lineker - 48 goals in 80 games.
Rooney - 53 goals in 119 games.

I know which I find more impressive.

They're both impressive.

 

[Bilo]

Rooney, even in his prime, was criminally underrated on here. Which, given we all agreed on Messi being 6/10, makes sense.

 

[St. Juste]

Lucky he's white, otherwise they'd say his birth certificate was falsified.

Yes, probably.

One of the best players to ever play in the Premier League, England and Man Utd's record goalscorer.... and he still gets people who slag him off.

Unbelievable really.

Well of course he does, even Messi and Ronaldo get criticised.

Judge him on his footballing ability, and what he has done in the game. I couldn't give a toss about who he wants relationships with to be honest.

People are judging him on his footballing ability, and why his career fell apart from age 29 onwards.

I think most people agree he did not reach the potential he had earlier in his career - similar to say Owen.

Rooney, even in his prime, was criminally underrated on here. Which, given we all agreed on Messi being 6/10, makes sense.

Really? His overhead kick against Man City is a great example of the pomp surrounding Rooney, it's a shiner from relatively close range. A good goal, yes, but better goals are scored every week and he is still being lauded for it even now! Around that time Berbatov scored a better overhead kick for Man Utd and nobody have spoke of it since.

Would Rooney make it into top 10 forwards of his generation? Absolutely not.

Top 20? Maybe, depending on your definition of forward.

 

[Pagnell]

Rooney, even in his prime, was criminally underrated on here. Which, given we all agreed on Messi being 6/10, makes sense.

Nah, I'd say he was viewed by most as what he pretty much was. A great player and goalscorer who never quite fulfilled the world class potential most people expected him to back when he hit the scene. Even if we ignore his off the field antics, he never really helped himself with his lifestyle choices, be it diet or nicotine.

 

[Bilo]

Really? His overhead kick against Man City is a great example of the pomp surrounding Rooney, it's a shiner from relatively close range. A good goal, yes, but better goals are scored every week and he is still being lauded for it even now! Around that time Berbatov scored a better overhead kick for Man Utd and nobody have spoke of it since.

Would Rooney make it into top 10 forwards of his generation? Absolutely not.

Top 20? Maybe, depending on your definition of forward.

I used to criticize the lauding of that overhead kick a lot because he shins it.

Then I stopped because, and do take my word for it, it seems belittling and bitter.

Generation is a word I rarely use because it's a non-definable term, but given all forwards born in the eighties, top ten imo. And trust me I despise the man.

Nah, I'd say he was viewed by most as what he pretty much was. A great player and goalscorer who never quite fulfilled the world class potential most people expected him to back when he hit the scene. Even if we ignore his off the field antics, he never really helped himself with his lifestyle choices, be it diet or nicotine.

He had world class potential and he very much fulfilled it. He went on to win everything (being a key player at that) and became top goalscorer for club and country. How is that not fulfulling his world class potential?

What has hampered Rooney's perceived quality by some, is the fact that those who play like they're 20 when they're 16 very, very often tend to play like they're 34 when they're 30. This isn't an exception but rather the rule, but instead of accepting this simple fact people look into his lifestyle which of course hasn't helped, but hasn't necessarily hampered him too much either. His career makes sense, in the broadest sense of the word, and if you read what Ferguson has said about it, most people knew that he'd take a sharp decline all along.

But instead, the English media (and this is broad, generalizing criticism but rather accurate) thought that since he was so good at 16, he will have a trajectory in his development similar to all 16-year olds (who tend to play their age), which is almost always incorrect. There are exceptions (Messi 6/10) but they're fewer than you'd think. He was an early bloomer with an early peak, like Drogba, to give an opposite, was a late bloomer with a late peak.

People tend to look into lifestyles to confirm a pre-conceived bias, when it comes to this I find. When Zlatan came to United, having peaked at the tender age of 33, there were all kinds of strange pieces on his motivation and how hard he'd taken care of his body. Sure, most top footballers do. Zlatan also didn't really reach peak performances until he was 25, so again, his career makes as much sense as Drogba's and Rooney's.

A forward's peak is roundabout eight to ten years. True for Zlatan, true for Rooney. You can go on, there are millions of early bloomers who "wasted it", while the truth is they just peaked early and that's pretty much it.

 

[Pagnell]

Then we’re going back to the old question of what defines world class, that most overused of footballing expressions. Ours are different it seems. He had one or maybe two seasons where he was approaching what I would define as that quality. The rest of his campaigns he only occasionally threatened 20 goals in all competitions whilst in a side with shit loads of creativity.

 

[epic73]

Yes, probably.



Well of course he does, even Messi and Ronaldo get criticised.




People are judging him on his footballing ability, and why his career fell apart from age 29 onwards.

I think most people agree he did not reach the potential he had earlier in his career - similar to say Owen.



Really? His overhead kick against Man City is a great example of the pomp surrounding Rooney, it's a shiner from relatively close range. A good goal, yes, but better goals are scored every week and he is still being lauded for it even now! Around that time Berbatov scored a better overhead kick for Man Utd and nobody have spoke of it since.

Would Rooney make it into top 10 forwards of his generation? Absolutely not.

Top 20? Maybe, depending on your definition of forward.

Ah, the old St Juste multiquote.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Hitting an overhead kick with the apex of your foot and shin is good technique anyway. Never understood that criticism. It's not like he did it by accident.

 

[Johnnyt]

Pagnells bitterness is on full tilt here...........probably thinks Mo Salah is better than Rooney.

pmsl

 

[Pagnell]

Yup. Nail on head as usual from toodles. My bitterness towards Rooney knows no bounds. I can only dream of being that classy.

 

[Johnnyt]

Yup. Nail on head as usual from toodles. My bitterness towards Rooney knows no bounds. I can only dream of being that classy.

or that successfull

 

[Pagnell]

That might actually make sense if I was a footballer.

 

[Stevencc]

Pagnell is very much considered to be the Wayne Rooney of the IT profession, his colleagues even call him "Pazza".

 

[Pagnell]

Women of an older persuasion always like my company for some reason as well.

 

[Stevencc]

It's all that money you pay them.

 

[Pagnell]

OK, I feel a bit sick now.

 

[St. Juste]

People tend to look into lifestyles to confirm a pre-conceived bias, when it comes to this I find. When Zlatan came to United, having peaked at the tender age of 33, there were all kinds of strange pieces on his motivation and how hard he'd taken care of his body. Sure, most top footballers do. Zlatan also didn't really reach peak performances until he was 25, so again, his career makes as much sense as Drogba's and Rooney's.

A forward's peak is roundabout eight to ten years. True for Zlatan, true for Rooney. You can go on, there are millions of early bloomers who "wasted it", while the truth is they just peaked early and that's pretty much it.

Zlatan is a great example of a player who played at the highest level for far longer than Rooney. He started his career in Sweden, having turned down a trial for Arsenal, where he played scored plenty of goals and won league titles. Then went to Ajax where he played well, scored plenty of goals and won league titles. And so on and so on.

He has more goals than Rooney in fewer appearances for a worse national side. Including 4 against England.

At club football the distance is even greater - both in terms of goals and trophies won.

Ibrahimovic is a far better player than Rooney and I distinctly recall people on this site laughing at this suggestions years ago. He had a far longer spell at the topVila than Rooney too - dispelling Rooney from Man Utd despite being 4 years older.

As for superior forwards born in the 80s, who is Rooney better than on this list?

Ibrahimovic
Messi
Ronaldo
Benzema
Suarez
Ronaldinho
Kaka
Lewandowski
Torres
Villa
Higuain
Aguero
Muller

And I'm probably missing quite a few obvious ones.

 

[Stevencc]

I'm no fan of Rooney and think he is extremely overrated but why have you included Kaka on a list of forwards?

I know he played in advanced positions and occupied the space a forward operates in at times but he doesn't count. He was a playmaker and that isn't what we are talking about here.

 

[St. Juste]

I'm no fan of Rooney and think he is extremely overrated but why have you included Kaka on a list of forwards?

I know he played in advanced positions and occupied the space a forward operates in at times but he doesn't count. He was a playmaker and that isn't what we are talking about here.

Are you saying Rooney never played a similar position to Kaka?

Even if you remove him, still plenty of superior players on show.