Standard of refereeing

[EricSabin]

Right, pretty topical at the moment on here thanks to the precious Crewe fans. But I was thinking they had a point.

We seem to have had a couple of referees promoted from the national league and they’ve been absolutely dreadful, properly wank.

Anyone else noticed a decline or am I imagining it and it’s the same as ever?

 

[valefan16]

Right, pretty topical at the moment on here thanks to the precious Crewe fans. But I was thinking they had a point.

We seem to have had a couple of referees promoted from the national league and they’ve been absolutely dreadful, properly wank.

Anyone else noticed a decline or am I imagining it and it’s the same as ever?

All of ours bar the opening day have been promoted and have generally been poor, that said as we publically declared rightly or wrongly they were shocking last season too!

The Crewe guy refereed Vale v Northampton and was blasted in that game, with the corner decision for the Cobblers goal about five yards from getting a touch from a Vale body... and had given the same wrong decision minutes earlier.

That said yesterday’s referee against Plymouth was ok, didn’t give them a penalty for a dive and didn’t give us one that would of been incredibly harsh.

That said I’m sure I saw the referees chief down here now is Mike Jones as Artell mentioned he was watching... Mike Jones despite being a premier league referee put in one of the most shocking referee performances at Vale Park in recent times in our crunch relegation battle two years ago against Chesterfield! Kept their centre half on for literally elbowing Hannants head off... sent Pugh off fairly but inconsistently then gave them a free kick when their lad air kicked it which they scored from. Luckily Whitfield saved the day but had we not won that we could well of been into non league on that performance!

 

[The Terminator]

After spending two seasons down in Non League, I've learned to appreciate the refs here even more - You notice the change in standards quickly from both leagues.

The refs in Non League are ten times worse than the ones here, they struggle to notice when to play advantage, get fooled easily by gamesmenship and god forbid if they end up on BT Sport, so they can brandish a yellow card for the sake of it, so they can appear on tv infront of..........nobody but the few thousand who actually bother watching only because its their club playing.

We had Peter Wright yesterday, whom we also had last season - The times we had him I thought he was weak and inconsistent - not much changed after his display yesterday.

I see David Rock and Carl Brook were also promoted, Brook was alright I thought, Rock was a fussy fucker who booked one of players for diving after being taken clean out in the penalty box - Even though we won the game, I still hold that against him, the stupid moron.

 

[EricSabin]

Rock was the ref the Crewe fans were moaning about from yesterday and who the Vale fans hammered after our game. Seems like he’s really making the most of his promotion.

Alan Young and Leigh Doughty we’ve had the last two weeks and have been hammered both times by our usually very balanced journo

 

[TimeyWimey]

Right, pretty topical at the moment on here thanks to the precious Crewe fans. But I was thinking they had a point.

The state of this. Mate.

Referees at this level have always been terrible with a couple of stand out clowns every generation. The likes of Mark Cooper and Jarnail Singh preceded the likes of Graham Salisbury. But when someone like Stuart Attwell can make it to the big time by being one of life’s failures, where’s the incentive for them to improve?

 

[Crewelad87]

The state of this. Mate.

Referees at this level have always been terrible with a couple of stand out clowns every generation. The likes of Mark Cooper and Jarnail Singh preceded the likes of Graham Salisbury. But when someone like Stuart Attwell can make it to the big time by being one of life’s failures, where’s the incentive for them to improve?

Singh was brilliant. I think he must have been a closet Crewe fan. I remember one game at Brighton he may aswell have wore a red shirt.

 

[Big Bird]

Think we're 4 points worse off so far due to blatant errors. Goalkeeper kicking the ball off Doyle's arse and it rolls in only to be disallowed v either Cheltenham or Exeter, can't remember which, and Andy Williams blatantly being offside to score the winner in our only defeat to Northampton.

In vast contrast whoever the ref was against Morecambe was fantastic and generally let play go unless he had to stop it. Barely noticed he was there.

Can't say I've noticed it being a great deal worse than when we were in League 1 as there are a load of games at that level I can remember which were all about the ref.

I annoy myself because I generally look forward to going to matches and always without fail forget there's a high probability the referee will have a completely inept afternoon and ruin the game. 20 minutes in is about enough time to realise if you've got a clown with a whistle.

 

[Blue Lion]

Getting annoyed by the inability of L2 refs to enforce the 'leave at the nearest touchline' rule for substitutions. Other than that no complaints so far.

 

[JJ1532]

I don't know why people expect any better. Managers at this level make odd decisions with selections and tactics all the time. Players make bad plays on numerous occasions. It's the 4th tier, why we expect so much from refs baffles me. They are going to make terrible calls, some of them frequently. Yes, it's really annoying when it costs your team a result. But the chances are, you'll get some favourable calls over the course of the season.

I would much rather talk about bad refs than talk about VAR. Decisions like the penalty on Saturday are what make football. Take the rough with the smooth I think.

 

[Indian Dan]

Refs are a strange breed - can’t imagine why anyone would want to do it at any level.

I don’t know if this is true but those in the PL - have they worked their way through the leagues or, for some unknown reason, just been headhunted from somewhere, brainwashed in the PL’s own refereeing asylum and let loose on Matchday.

Where do the refs actually come from? What’s their starting point? Surely they all can’t start off officiating the Dog and Duck and end up at a World Cup Final. Are they even human?

 

[Super_horns]

Aren't most part time in League One and Two?

Probably would not make much difference to the quality but maybe they ought to go professionally like the top ones ?

TBH like the players and managers they will be inconsistent - assistants at all levels seem to be pretty average

It's all highlighted more now and bad mistakes magnified .

And VAR certainly hasn't made much difference as officials are too worried about over ruling their mates .

Wasn't a penalty at Crewe - even the Cambridge manager agreed think but didn't stop his player appealing for a foul at the time so does gamesmanship still goes on even here ?

 

[Kenneth E End]

Aren't most part time in League One and Two?

Probably would not make much difference to the quality but maybe they ought to go professionally like the top ones ?

TBH like the players and managers they will be inconsistent - assistants at all levels seem to be pretty average

It's all highlighted more now and bad mistakes magnified .

And VAR certainly hasn't made much difference as officials are too worried about over ruling their mates .

Wasn't a penalty at Crewe - even the Cambridge manager agreed think but didn't stop his player appealing for a foul at the time so does gamesmanship still goes on even here ?

And you have nailed the reason exactly here. Where is the incentive to be a referee financially? Can you imagine working a 4-5 day week and then have to travel the breadth of the country at least once a week to referee a game, to be abused and criticised for every single decision.

If all referees in L1/L2 went pro and paid them a decent wedge, the standard would gradually improve and you’d get more former pros going into the profession.

 

[WilsdenBantam]

And you have nailed the reason exactly here. Where is the incentive to be a referee financially? Can you imagine working a 4-5 day week and then have to travel the breadth of the country at least once a week to referee a game, to be abused and criticised for every single decision.

If all referees in L1/L2 went pro and paid them a decent wedge, the standard would gradually improve and you’d get more former pros going into the profession.

They still get paid £380 per game, not bad on top of your wage. In fact you could give up most jobs in the Bradford area for that.

 

[WilsdenBantam]

They are terrible, as Big Bird said though there is nothing between League 1 and 2 standard. It's annoying but it won't change, so we just have to suck it up. The one bright side is most of them are usually just as bad for both teams, even if some fans on here can't see it.

 

[Strawberry_Jam]

Guess who's got Breakspear next!

 

[joethegill]

Referees at this level have always been terrible with a couple of stand out clowns every generation. The likes of Mark Cooper and Jarnail Singh preceded the likes of Graham Salisbury. But when someone like Stuart Attwell can make it to the big time by being one of life’s failures, where’s the incentive for them to improve?

Jarnail Singh is the only referee I can ever remember receiving a round of applause at Priestfield. Always did well by us!

 

[shoddycollins]

Pressley has gone on about the quality of refs a lot in the first few games. We seem to have had some better ones since then but there were some real shockers in our opening games.

The reason I'm led to believe is that with the introduction of VAR in the Premier league, they've promoted a lot of refs from the EFL to fill those positions. Naturally the better ones, we still get Trevor Kettle, while they've had to promote all these non league refs to fill the gaps that leaves down here.

 

[EricSabin]

Guess who's got Breakspear next!

Arghhhhhh for fuck sake

 

[Deepcut Cobbler]

Guess who's got Breakspear next!

To be fair, he has been OK for our the two games of ours he has been in the middle for...

 

[dedwardp]

Refs are a strange breed - can’t imagine why anyone would want to do it at any level.

I don’t know if this is true but those in the PL - have they worked their way through the leagues or, for some unknown reason, just been headhunted from somewhere, brainwashed in the PL’s own refereeing asylum and let loose on Matchday.

Where do the refs actually come from? What’s their starting point? Surely they all can’t start off officiating the Dog and Duck and end up at a World Cup Final. Are they even human?

I refereed for a couple of seasons when I was a teenager (until I couldn't be arsed getting up on a Sunday morning to go out in the rain) and for me it was just being involved in everything. As a player you drift in and out of games, sometimes get subbed and pay to play, whereas as the referee you're always out there, always involved in the whole game and got paid instead. It also seemed to be a realistic pathway of getting somewhere if you wanted to stick with it.

Only issue is you do have to start young as it takes ages to work your way through the various levels, otherwise you'd be too old by the time you got anywhere.

 

[shoddycollins]

I refereed for a couple of seasons when I was a teenager (until I couldn't be arsed getting up on a Sunday morning to go out in the rain) and for me it was just being involved in everything. As a player you drift in and out of games, sometimes get subbed and pay to play, whereas as the referee you're always out there, always involved in the whole game and got paid instead. It also seemed to be a realistic pathway of getting somewhere if you wanted to stick with it.

Only issue is you do have to start young as it takes ages to work your way through the various levels, otherwise you'd be too old by the time you got anywhere.

I did a refereeing course when I was in sixth form... Only ever refereed a couple of games though. At the age of 17 I (probably sensibly) turned down an offer to referee a game in an over-30's league. Then that the was year that foot and mouth hit and a lot of local leagues just called the season off due to restrictions on holding public events in rural areas, straight after that I moved away to go to Uni.

 

[Crewelad87]

Unlucky Crawley and Plymouth fans you have the pleasure of Mr Rock tomorrow night.

 

[Indian Dan]

Raging Rock, eh?

 

[Tarzan]

We had Peter Wright yesterday, whom we also had last season - The times we had him I thought he was weak and inconsistent - not much changed after his display yesterday.

He seemed to get worse as the game went on.

There was a throw in he gave you which the linesman, about 5 yards away, didn't give and none of the players seemed to appeal. Play continued then a few seconds later he changed his mind and blew for a throw. The only thing we could think was the 4th official had given it despite being the furthest away of them all.

I also thought you were lucky not to have a player sent off but this ref came from the school of thought where what should be a second yellow isn't a second yellow unless that offence is much worse than the first one. Does sending someone off mean a lot more paperwork for the ref and they just can't be bothered?

 

[Bottega Don]

It's the inconsistency which is so frustrating from ref to ref. A red card tackle seems to differ depending on what ref you have. That's more of a rules issue though I suppose.

We see dives every single week yet the ref waves them away, shouldn't it be a free kick to the other team and a yellow card? I saw that happen in one of our games for the first time against Mansfield.

 

[shoddycollins]

It's the inconsistency which is so frustrating from ref to ref. A red card tackle seems to differ depending on what ref you have. That's more of a rules issue though I suppose.

We see dives every single week yet the ref waves them away, shouldn't it be a free kick to the other team and a yellow card? I saw that happen in one of our games for the first time against Mansfield.

I think there are definitely a lot of occasions that are neither a dive nor a foul, I don't agree with the notion that if a player goes down and it isn't a free kick then it has to be a dive. Gives referees a way out though if they're unsure, they can just say it's neither.

Personally I think expecting referees to catch simulations is a bit futile since the whole point of it is to dupe the ref, refs can only punish those players who are bad at it. Retrospective punishment is the way forward, and they brought that in a couple of seasons back, though it appears to have fallen by the wayside while the prevalence of diving doesn't seem to have changed.

They should look at not just penalties, red cards and second bookings but also first bookings, direct free kicks in the attacking third and free kicks won in the penalty area by the defending team. Any player found to have dived will get a three match ban as things stand. If the same player is caught again within 24 months* they will get a six match ban. Any team who have two players caught within 24 months will suffer a three point deduction.

Can only assume that when Danny Hylton picked up an injury, the FA decided to divert resources away from the simulation panel feeling it was no longer required.

*the reason I say 24 months rather than a season is to further discourage diving. A player who gets caught once has is hanging over them long enough it might affect their career, other clubs less willing to sign a player who is one punishment away from a six-game ban

 

[dedwardp]

I did a refereeing course when I was in sixth form... Only ever refereed a couple of games though. At the age of 17 I (probably sensibly) turned down an offer to referee a game in an over-30's league. Then that the was year that foot and mouth hit and a lot of local leagues just called the season off due to restrictions on holding public events in rural areas, straight after that I moved away to go to Uni.

I was perhaps fortunate to do it at an age where I could only referee age groups younger than me (or unfortunate, depending on how badly the parents might react!). To be honest, a lot of the time I was refereeing the Colchester United academy games between U11-U14s sort of age range so it was pretty good for not copping any abuse as I guess they're a bit stricter with that in academies.

 

[darren gregory]

It's hard to be impartial when blasting referees I guess.
Last week at Newport he was absolutely horrific and also looked unfit.
The Northampton one has already been mentioned, he was openly laughing his head off when people were chanting at him.
It's the fitness levels for me, they hardly seem able to keep up and give decisions from 100 yards away based on guesswork mainly.
You hope that things equal out over a season. But it's no comfort at the time .

 

[valefan16]

It's hard to be impartial when blasting referees I guess.
Last week at Newport he was absolutely horrific and also looked unfit.
The Northampton one has already been mentioned, he was openly laughing his head off when people were chanting at him.
It's the fitness levels for me, they hardly seem able to keep up and give decisions from 100 yards away based on guesswork mainly.
You hope that things equal out over a season. But it's no comfort at the time .

Didn't seem to even up last season!

 

[JJ1532]

Aren't most part time in League One and Two?

Probably would not make much difference to the quality but maybe they ought to go professionally like the top ones ?

Absolutely they should. Their training should match the level of the players they are watching over. If the players in L2 are full time, then so should the officials. It wouldn't even cost that much to fund a set of full time officials each year anyway. You would only need a maximum of 36 refs, 36 4th officials and 72 lino's on any given day. Even if you round up to 100 refs and 100 linos and pay them 20k a year as a full time career, thats only £4m. Add in training and other expenses and that's still only around £5m in my estimation. Can the FL not afford that? And that's just a black and white plan.

I'm sure you could create a workable plan to have a full time pool of refs and make it sustainable. Right now, it just feels like refereeing in the FL is a joke and it needs to improve.