Standard of refereeing

[EricSabin]

Absolutely they should. Their training should match the level of the players they are watching over. If the players in L2 are full time, then so should the officials. It wouldn't even cost that much to fund a set of full time officials each year anyway. You would only need a maximum of 36 refs, 36 4th officials and 72 lino's on any given day. Even if you round up to 100 refs and 100 linos and pay them 20k a year as a full time career, thats only £4m. Add in training and other expenses and that's still only around £5m in my estimation. Can the FL not afford that? And that's just a black and white plan.

I'm sure you could create a workable plan to have a full time pool of refs and make it sustainable. Right now, it just feels like refereeing in the FL is a joke and it needs to improve.

I’d suggest most refs earn a lot more than £20k a year and would laugh at you if you offered them that a year to become full time

 

[Indian Dan]

Fucked if I’d do it for £20k per annum. Who’d give up their day job for peanuts pay like that?

 

[Super_horns]

Regarding former professionals becoming refs - would that work?

They might know and understand the game better in terms of what isn't a foul and is a foul but they will still be accused of being biased by fans based on something that happened in their playing career.

Where would they start and could they be bothered travelling around the country for x more years having done so as players.

 

[Gladders]

Fucked if I’d do it for £20k per annum. Who’d give up their day job for peanuts pay like that?

You can get 20k a year as a 16 year old by completing basic training in the forces

 

[JJ1532]

I’d suggest most refs earn a lot more than £20k a year and would laugh at you if you offered them that a year to become full time

Maybe. It was only the back of a fag packet idea to show that paying a group of 70-100 officials a full time wage is affordable. Which it is, given how much money is sloshing around the Championship at the moment. Those clubs get the same pool of refs L2 does, so they would have a vested interest in funding this kind of thing.

 

[Vanni]

The standard of refereeing is excellent, but ask me again tomorrow at 10pm and I may well have changed my mind by then. What are the odds that Crewe are awarded a soft penno due to Artell's whingeing? And Cambridge to have a couple of stonewall penalty claims waved away or a man harshly sent off?

As others before me have pointed out, lower league refs are not great and they haven't been for as long as I care to remember. At least there's 46 rounds in the league; it's much harder to take when the injustice occurs in a one off game like the FA Cup or a play off final.

 

[The Alex]

No ref will ever top Uriah Rennie, that man was Crewe through and through.

 

[Deepcut Cobbler]

I’d suggest most refs earn a lot more than £20k a year and would laugh at you if you offered them that a year to become full time

Beat me to it.
The recruiting pool would drop to a level where only those that could afford to earn only £20k (or maybe up to £40k) would be in it and available to be selected from, which would have the effect of reducing the standard even further.
There are a number of more than adequate EFL officials who have were eligible for and refused 'promotion' to the Championship/PL because it was not worth their while going full time, even on PL salaries.
Effectively, if it was compulsory, they would drop into the NL.

 

[EricSabin]

It was mentioned by our local press that the woeful referee on Saturday was being assessed. That assessor was Andy D’Urso. Andy fucking D’Urso.

 

[Deepcut Cobbler]

It was mentioned by our local press that the woeful referee on Saturday was being assessed. That assessor was Andy D’Urso. Andy fucking D’Urso.

I wasn't there on Saturday, I was elsewhere officiating...

 

[Kenneth E End]

I’ve been lucky(?) enough to see referees at all levels bar the Premier League in the flesh over the last 10 seasons.

Whilst there are some clearly hopeless officials, the standard in the Conference wasn’t as bad as I expected. That said, it seems to be that a lot of the referees we had in those days have since been promoted up to SG2 and beyond (perhaps it was just a decent intake). Jez Simpson, whom we had on Saturday, David Coote, Tony Harrington, Tim Robinson, Peter Bankes etc were regulars when we were down there. They seem to have overtaken the likes of Kettle who seems to have a job for life on the National List.

 

[Stringy]

When I'm in the stadium, I like heckling a referee or linesman as much as the next man. Otherwise, I'm not that bothered what referees do. Getting a few decisions wrong is acceptable when they have only have one pair of eyes and everything happens at pace. If there are any important, dodgy decisions, they are likely to even themselves out over the course of the season. I speculate that if a neutral reviewed all the contentious decisions for and against your team, the net positive/negative pts as a consequence would be negligible.

If anything, I am amazed by the fascination with refereeing decisions. Every single week I see players making terrible decisions. Players shooting from silly angles when there's a certain goal if they square it. Players not timing their passes correctly. Wingers not attempting to run beyond the full back when they are in excellent positions. Shooting from stupid positions when the opposition are penned in.

The second paragraph is where blame should lie. There are so many more points to be won by focusing on what can be controlled.

 

[Son of Cod]

LOL at anyone that thinks L2 is bad. You know nothing.

 

[EricSabin]

LOL at anyone that thinks L2 is bad. You know nothing.

Enlighten us

 

[Son of Cod]

Enlighten us

If the Cobblies ever slip down into Non-league you'll find out.

 

[EricSabin]

If the Cobblies ever slip down into Non-league you'll find out.

Never happened and never will.

Last time it looked like we would, 7 points adrift in January and rotten to the core, a certain Mr C Wilder rode into town.

 

[Son of Cod]

Never happened and never will.

Last time it looked like we would, 7 points adrift in January and rotten to the core, a certain Mr C Wilder rode into town.

Haha. Plenty of bigger clubs said that first bit and ended up down there.

 

[Boletus Edulis]

I officiated for about ten years, and my dad reffed for about thirty. I decided to give up when other things came along. It was made clear to me when a teenager that I could make the football league, but I had to put reffing first before everything else. I declined.

I knew socially, and ran the line with quite a few who were on the league. One of the most different things from now was that it would take fifteen years, minimum and usually twenty plus, to get onto the league. That is not the case now, a number of the refs we are seeing just have not had time to learn their craft. The big issue, as I see it, is that they lack the game management experience. They often make the right decision, but cannot manage a feisty game, simply because they have not been in that situation before. We had a ref this year who had his first ever EFL game at a packed Home Park, after just one season in the NL. One example of his lack of experience was the sending off. He got the card out so quickly he gave himself no time to think. He had nowhere to go because he acted instinctively. He probably got the decision right, but that is not the point, a wise ref in that situation would not have acted so quickly.

One factor which I think makes a huge difference is that the local referee associations are dying out. They used to recruit and train new refs, and their regular meetings and social activities acted as a university for young or inexperienced refs, with knowledge being passed on. Now the county FAs do the training and that support and learning network no longer exists to the same extent.

As Shoddy points out, VAR has created a peculiar issue this year where the refs used for VAR are replaced by those from the NL who probably not ready yet. They need so few more years learning.

One thing I have noted this year is that a number of Lino’s appear physically slow and off the play (though we had one against Salford who was excellent).

 

[Boletus Edulis]

When I'm in the stadium, I like heckling a referee or linesman as much as the next man. Otherwise, I'm not that bothered what referees do. Getting a few decisions wrong is acceptable when they have only have one pair of eyes and everything happens at pace. If there are any important, dodgy decisions, they are likely to even themselves out over the course of the season. I speculate that if a neutral reviewed all the contentious decisions for and against your team, the net positive/negative pts as a consequence would be negligible.

If anything, I am amazed by the fascination with refereeing decisions. Every single week I see players making terrible decisions. Players shooting from silly angles when there's a certain goal if they square it. Players not timing their passes correctly. Wingers not attempting to run beyond the full back when they are in excellent positions. Shooting from stupid positions when the opposition are penned in.

The second paragraph is where blame should lie. There are so many more points to be won by focusing on what can be controlled.

I agree with you, but I differentiate between decision making which most refs get most right, and game management. It is the latter which is more of an issue with inexperienced, slow or badly positioned officials.

 

[Chris FGR]

Inconsistency is annoying. Often the exact same cynical/breaking up a counter attack foul will not be given as a yellow, and then 5 minutes later another one will be.

Also why aren't refs enforcing the subs leaving at the nearest touch line rule? Or booking players that stand in the way at free kicks?

 

[denzel ecfc]

It's got worse. Cant help think it's something to do with VAR. Refs are relying more on technology and forgetting the basics. It's worse in cricket, as anyone who has watched The Ashes will know.

 

[Chris FGR]

Why can't yellow cards be rescinded?

 

[Valeite]

I don`t thinks refs are worse but players cheat and act more. If you watch a re-run of a game in the 70s you will see some shocking refereeing but players aren`t diving so much and are much more respectful of the ref.
Crewe moaning about players diving and overacting is the ultimate irony, as I`m sure they have many coaching sessions at Reaseheath dedicated to the dark arts.

 

[doveranddover]

Unlucky Crawley and Plymouth fans you have the pleasure of Mr Rock tomorrow night.

Many [me especially] Dover fans think David Rock was the worst ref in the National League.
I was expecting him to be demoted not promoted. Still at least we don't see him anymore

 

[Tarzan]

It was mentioned by our local press that the woeful referee on Saturday was being assessed. That assessor was Andy D’Urso. Andy fucking D’Urso.

He managed to confuse an entire stadium plus himself, I'm sure, a few years ago when he gave us a late penalty against Morecambe, then booked one of our players, sent off one of their players then changed his mind about the penalty.

 

[The Alex]

I don`t thinks refs are worse but players cheat and act more. If you watch a re-run of a game in the 70s you will see some shocking refereeing but players aren`t diving so much and are much more respectful of the ref.
Crewe moaning about players diving and overacting is the ultimate irony, as I`m sure they have many coaching sessions at Reaseheath dedicated to the dark arts.

That’s utter rubbish, seems to be a line people peddle that because we try to play football the right way we must also supposedly dive. I’ve never seen or known us to be a diving or play acting team.

In fact, it’s implemented into players at Reaseheath to play football the right way, and us winning the FairPlay award countless times in my lifetime further shows that.

Just another Vale fan making up nonsense about Crewe.

 

[valefan16]

That’s utter rubbish, seems to be a line people peddle that because we try to play football the right way we must also supposedly dive. I’ve never seen or known us to be a diving or play acting team.

In fact, it’s implemented into players at Reaseheath to play football the right way, and us winning the FairPlay award countless times in my lifetime further shows that.

Just another Vale fan making up nonsense about Crewe.

To be fair George Cooper spent most of the game against us two years ago chucking himself on the floor at Vale Park and in a similar fashion to your red card on Saturday made a miracle recovery once the red was shown against Tonge and of course that penalty with Donaldson but in fairness I cant recall much aside from that. The days of us booting you off the pitch under Micky with Griff getting his standard booking after a minute have since passed.

 

[The Alex]

I’ll give you Coops, that was a shocking decision. But the Donaldson incident was down to the ref, he took the ball and the man, wasn’t a dive.

 

[Sammo1982]

Interesting fact in the local rag yesterday. Over the course of the last 3 years a certain Mr. Breakspear has given Northampton 7 Reds in 8 games. By contrast, the other 134 games not involving him they have had 8 reds, if that were an XG rating it would be off the charts!

 

[GTFCfish]

Anyone remember this knob head?

Kevin Lynch, we used to get him all the time at Blundell Park back in our Championship days and he fucking hated us, I’m sure he used to give everything against us on purpose just to wind the fans up, easily up there with consistently the worst one I’ve ever seen.