Ups, Downs and Restructuring

Jemfy

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It's silly season time where all sorts of odd things happen, so it's about time we had somewhere to discuss these goings on. I normally start something covering these discussions earlier in the season but I've been busy this year and things have been relatively simple up to now.

The leagues committee is sitting around about now, and deciding on who goes where.

The normal spreadsheet produced by "wazzafan" on the NLM forum:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19IYalmuYUB-xj6akiGKTOy15BuKDQ36ipalVzYeDzZo/edit#gid=0

Edit: I meant to post this one - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JIniirEek4qDNVyE8YNphuVlBSQ4YlSqVZeDyMQxOgc

At the time I post this it has not yet been updated to cope with Worcester's situation.

Worcester City both asked to be relegated during the season and were relegated on the pitch over the course of the season. The leagues committee has therefore placed them at step 5 in the Midland Alliance due to the fact that there is a rule that if you ask to be relegated then you must be relegated 2 levels, plus the relegation on the pitch which is assessed separately.

The direct knock on effects would appear to be the following:
- Step 3 reprieve - Harrow Borough (Isthmian Premier)
- Step 4 reprieve - Ware (Isthmian Division 1 North)
Both of these are assessed on a PPG basis across the divisions with no preference for the league/division as the reprieve is coming from step 2 (n.b. there is a rule that reprieves from clubs below step 2 are assessed "in league" first).

Based on the projections in the spreadsheet (currently) that would move one team from the Isthmian Premier in to the Southern Premier - likely Bishops Stortford.

This then also means the push of a team from the Isthmian 1 North to the SLD1C - either Cambridge City or London Colney are the most likely, depending on how the leagues committee want to shape the divisions.
 
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#Beebot

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Why did Worcester ask to be relegated? Not exactly a small club.

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk
 

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I am pretty sure that Worcester don't have their own ground and think they may have played home games at Kidderminster and possibly Stourbridge in recent seasons. Maybe if they are relegated a division or two it will enable them to play on a ground back in their home city, that might not meet the grading for the league they were playing in, reduce costs but also give them the chance to work their way back up again.
 

Jemfy

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Why did Worcester ask to be relegated? Not exactly a small club.

Worcester don't have their own ground, as Greenacres said. They spent some time playing at Kiddy and they currently play at Bromsgrove Sporting's ground (n.b. Bromsgrove Sporting were promoted to step 5, meaning they will now have a derby next season, presuming they will both still play there).

Their official line was that they had previously been spending money on the squad in order to be eligible for higher levels of grants for developing their own ground, but uncertainties over gaining a suitable plot of land have meant that they have now decided to stop spending money on the higher levels and conserve/build cash at lower levels to fund their own place.

Personally I don't understand why they didn't just pull the funding for the squad, get in a team of developing local players and allow the relegation to happen naturally. They clearly don't seem happy going all the way down to step 5, but they should have known that it is the correct interpretation of the rules as they currently stand.
 

Kim Mitten

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Fucking Ware reprieved AGAIN. it's quite clear they can never ever be relegated.
 

Jemfy

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Murphy

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It appears teams as a whole have been notified of what division they are expected to play in next season - and as expected Diamonds have been moved back to the Southern League Division 1 Central.

Also I put the wrong spreadsheet above. I meant to put in this one (I'll also edit the opening post to contain this too)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JIniirEek4qDNVyE8YNphuVlBSQ4YlSqVZeDyMQxOgc

That spreadsheet is such an excellent tool.

At least Gloucester should cut down on their mileage a bit next season anyway.
 

Jemfy

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That spreadsheet is such an excellent tool.

At least Gloucester should cut down on their mileage a bit next season anyway.

Indeed. Full credit to the guy who makes it over on the NLM forum.

Gloucester have probably been looking forwards to going south for years. Hopefully for their stability they can stay south for a few years now.

I think every club that has made any form of announcement so far has been in line with that spreadsheet, with the caveat that it hasn't been updated since the Worcester situation became official.

Personally, looking at the maps the same guy makes (based on the projections) I'd swap North Leigh, Kidlington and Didcot in to the SLD1C, while swapping Moneyfields, Hartley and Witney, and Fleet in to the SLD1S&W, but it seems to be accurate to what has been allocated.

Step 1 - http://goo.gl/X1hoSw
Step 2 - http://goo.gl/jwcPDe
Step 3 - http://goo.gl/FBjpQG
Step 4 - http://goo.gl/ZsDXMm
Step 5 - http://goo.gl/24pPdz
 

Meadow

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Why would Gloucester be moved South? Aren't they groundsharing at Evesham next season? That's further north than Brackley.
 

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why not put Stains into the SLP and move Kings Lynn into the Ithmian where they could play lowscroft on boxing day
 

Jemfy

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Why would Gloucester be moved South? Aren't they groundsharing at Evesham next season? That's further north than Brackley.

I'm not 100% but they may have asked to be assessed from Gloucester if they have plans to move back there. Apparently we have been asked to be assessed from Hayden Road (Rushden) despite the fact that our official ground for the start of next season at least will be a ground share with Kempston.

Even if they are being assessed from Evesham it makes sense since Brackley is reasonably close to the M1, while geographical distances might be shorter for Gloucester to go north, travel times would surely be longer?
 

Jemfy

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why not put Stains into the SLP and move Kings Lynn into the Ithmian where they could play lowscroft on boxing day

The FA do try to prevent teams from switching sideways too often as it will cause problems with player retention etc depending on where the players live in relation to the clubs in their division. Frankly they are one of those sides where there are no good answers. Hopefully the future plans to move to four divisions (if that ever happens) will address issues like that.
 

Aberstone

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I'm sure I read that Gloucester's travel time and distance is negligible if they were to be shifted south. All will be revealed on Monday anyhow.
 

Jemfy

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This then also means the push of a team from the Isthmian 1 North to the SLD1C - either Cambridge City or London Colney are the most likely, depending on how the leagues committee want to shape the divisions.

Cambridge City have announced they have been allocated in the SLD1C. That means there is a high chance Diamonds will be playing Cambridge City for boxing day games.

Obviously all of these placings are provisional and nothing is final until after the AGMs.
 

Clem Fandango

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The mileage between the south and north for us is a little less in the south but average time to each game is pretty much exactly the same thanks to the M5/M6. Being in Evesham next season (groan) means we are further north than Brackley.

However hearing that we will be the team to go south so we'll see. Not being in Gloucester means to be honest most of us couldn't care less which league we are in. We have Kiddy, Tamworth, Leamington and Nuneaton within an hour or so in the north and WSM, Bath, Hungerford and Chippenham in the south. Swings and roundabouts really. We need to get a move on with the stadium tho or we'll be the next Worcester.
 

Tivvyultras

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we have a 530 round trip to Kings Lynn next season the sooner they make it 4 leagues the better
 

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why not put Stains into the SLP and move Kings Lynn into the Ithmian where they could play lowscroft on boxing day

Noooooo God no! Hell no! We've got enough East Anglia sides in the Isthmian as it is! I'm hoping this extra league at Step 4 & 5 will cut all our Lowestofts & Needham Markets out to these new divisions!
 

Jemfy

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Noooooo God no! Hell no! We've got enough East Anglia sides in the Isthmian as it is! I'm hoping this extra league at Step 4 & 5 will cut all our Lowestofts & Needham Markets out to these new divisions!

As much as it is bad for the Isthmian to be moving north in to East Anglia, it's leveling it out in terms of footprint. The Southern League has long faced a way too large footprint because of the density of clubs in the Isthmian, and the obsession that inside the M25 means you should be in the Isthmian. The longest trips in the Southern are far worse than those in the Isthmian.

As you say, hopefully these new divisions will sort that out somewhat.

edit: Also it's step 3 and 4, not 4 and 5.
 

Paddy

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That's because of the historical catchment areas of the leagues... Southern League & Northern Premier League were effectively the Conference South & North of today (geographically speaking) while the Isthmian was historically the bastard cousin outside of the system for teams in or near to the M25.

I think a 4 league solution is a good idea on paper... but because it's Southern League running the new step 3 & Isthmian League running the new step 4 I can't see the geography of step 3 changing much. I think it'll more likely be just a split in Southern League to the same areas it covers in Step 4 (South & West / Central). The new Isthmian at Step 4 I can only see being implemented in the area of North Essex/East Anglia.
 

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BREAKING - Ilkeston FC have been wound up in the high court.

May mean a reprieve for Goole? Among others?
 

DarkSithLord

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Unless new ilkeston take places of defunct club althougth the fa are harsher on phornix clubs these days
No chance of that.

Athough, the owner, Nigel Harrop is appealing the decision as there was an 11th hour takeover bid agreed with "All Eight Sports Management". We many end with another Northwich situation.
 

genesimmons

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No chance of that.

Athough, the owner, Nigel Harrop is appealing the decision as there was an 11th hour takeover bid agreed with "All Eight Sports Management". We many end with another Northwich situation.
Its bad when that happens and dilutes fan bases. There were 2 scarboroughs for a bit
 

Jemfy

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Unless new ilkeston take places of defunct club althougth the fa are harsher on phornix clubs these days

Rules are very clear. New/Phoenix clubs cannot start above step 5, with a minimum of 2 lower (i.e. someone going bust at step 4 would have to go in at 6). A new Ilkeston side would have to start at step 6.
 

DarkSithLord

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Rules are very clear. New/Phoenix clubs cannot start above step 5, with a minimum of 2 lower (i.e. someone going bust at step 4 would have to go in at 6). A new Ilkeston side would have to start at step 6.
Could they not start in the Central Midlands League South at Step 7.
 

Jemfy

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Could they not start in the Central Midlands League South at Step 7.

Well I said step 6 as a maximum, of course they could start lower. As I understand the process any new club would apply to both the FA and the league they wish to join. The FA will place the club based on facilities etc. Frankly step 7 only requires the most basic of facilities, so if they have access to the same ground it won't be an issue (I have no clue who owns it, the council?), and there is little point in beginning at step 7 if you can get in at 6.
 

Jemfy

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Do the Rushden Fans know they are going south now?

Yep, we've been confirmed in the SLD1C for a while now. Obviously final confirmations only come after the AGMs though.
 

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