Terrorist Attacks Thread

G-Dragon · Oct 2, 2017

Gun control won't help. It is too late.

Renegade · Oct 3, 2017

Well it certainly wouldn't hurt. Too many guns are already out in the public, an outright ban is unworkable in the states, but if introducing restrictions on the ability the own a personal armoury would impact in any positive way, then it should be enacted. Same goes for stricter background checks and extensive safety training prior to the purchase of any firearm. Why does anyone need an assault rifle? I suspect nothing will be done, maybe just tighter security at major hotels to feed into people's paranoia.

PuB · Oct 3, 2017

Nothing will be done, the NRA are way too powerful politically and I don't think there's any real appetite for it anyway. Strangely when these things happen the US usually sees a spike in gun sales, they're too focussed on the idea that the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun, is to carry a gun yourself.

Renegade · Oct 3, 2017

PuB said:
Nothing will be done, the NRA are way too powerful politically and I don't think there's any real appetite for it anyway. Strangely when these things happen the US usually sees a spike in gun sales, they're too focussed on the idea that the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun, is to carry a gun yourself.

Yep. Also, second amendment nuts will buy more guns in fear of potential restrictions coming in!

Great system. :crazy:

NorfolkWomble · Oct 3, 2017

Renegade said:
ISIS would take responsibility for someone shoplifting in Tesco if it was newsworthy enough. Far-fetched to say the least.

This is a myth and it's frustrating that people keep repeating it. It's baseless. The only other incident they've claimed wrongly is the Filipino casino attack. Normally, if they claim a link, there is a link, either inspired or directly involved. This is the first major mass casualty event in the West that ISIS have potentially wrongly claimed. Saying that, they've doubled down on their claim of responsibility and it hasn't been ruled out yet.

Renegade · Oct 3, 2017

NorfolkWomble said:
This is a myth and it's frustrating that people keep repeating it. It's baseless. The only other incident they've claimed wrongly is the Filipino casino attack. Normally, if they claim a link, there is a link, either inspired or directly involved. This is the first major mass casualty event in the West that ISIS have potentially wrongly claimed. Saying that, they've doubled down on their claim of responsibility and it hasn't been ruled out yet.

I was more pointing to the attacks in which the attackers were not members of ISIS, yet they still claimed responsibility for the attacks. It seems pretty simple for ISIS to claim responsibility if all that is required is a tenuous 'inspiration' link. In that case, all they require is for any terrorist attack to have an element of martyrdom, maybe a smidge of "God is Great", an attacker having searched ISIS on Google and they get to claim responsibility in their name. Unproven/unprovable inspiration =/= responsibility, though it can easily be spun that way. I was being overtly facetious anyway.

NorfolkWomble · Oct 3, 2017

Renegade said:
I was more pointing to the attacks in which the attackers were not members of ISIS, yet they still claimed responsibility for the attacks. It seems pretty simple for ISIS to claim responsibility if all that is required is a tenuous 'inspiration' link. In that case, all they require is for any terrorist attack to have an element of martyrdom, maybe a smidge of "God is Great", an attacker having searched ISIS on Google and they get to claim responsibility in their name. Unproven/unprovable inspiration =/= responsibility, though it can easily be spun that way. I was being overtly facetious anyway.

I don't think it's as tenuous as you think though. Since ISIS came about there has been a huge increase in "lonewolf" terror attacks. They aren't unrelated, ISIS is a direct cause of these, with their calls for followers to carry out these attacks.

Abertawe · Oct 3, 2017

There have been lone wolf attacks since the beginning of time. It's silly for an educated chap such as yourself to suggest "ISIS is the direct cause". The means of communication has gotten better that's all so that creates a distorted impression that in all likelihood doesn't tally with the reality of the attackers mindset.

NorfolkWomble · Oct 3, 2017

Abertawe said:
There have been lone wolf attacks since the beginning of time. It's silly for an educated chap such as yourself to suggest "ISIS is the direct cause". The means of communication has gotten better that's all so that creates a distorted impression that in all likelihood doesn't tally with the reality of the attackers mindset.

Not in the same vein as the current ones in Europe. What is the other cause then? Al-Qaeda has existed for decades. How many lone-wolf Islamist attacks were there between 2001 and 2011 or 2012? How many since 2012?

Don't kid yourself into thinking ISIS hasn't changed the game and rallied far more people to carry out lone-wolf attacks.

Abertawe · Oct 3, 2017

NorfolkWomble said:
Not in the same vein as the current ones in Europe. What is the other cause then? Al-Qaeda has existed for decades. How many lone-wolf Islamist attacks were there between 2001 and 2011 or 2012? How many since 2012?

Don't kid yourself into thinking ISIS hasn't changed the game and rallied far more people to carry out lone-wolf attacks.

That's not the same as "direct cause" which is what I was taking issue with.

Examples of lone wolfers, there are loads & loads.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/...tmhttps://web.archive.org/web/20091201133942/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...led-nailbomber-is-jailed-for-life-706785.html
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/09/25/world/teen-age-gunman-kills-himself-and-12-others-in-france.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1566321.stm
https://books.google.co.uk/booksid=nV5e5t4VzQ0C&pg=PA106&lpg=PA106&dq=christian+dornier&source=bl&ots=EaKjlN05sd&sig=QYuwhgefX_ormhVzJdcgb0PM0AU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi15MPQ_dTWAhWGXRoKHXxZCXkQ6AEIVDAI#v=onepage&q=christian dornier&f=false
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article7142413.ece
https://web.archive.org/web/20090503053515/http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8026807.stm
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...n/news-story/1c11a40bd6b7b68268732fc76fa1f04d

ISIS of itself ain't shit and they're certainly not the direct cause of anything imho. Deeper issues makes it lazy to just assert ISIS is causing this and be satisfied with that as a conclusion. Lot's of factors in play. The world is in a flux of huge disillusionment and voting perceived anti-establishment or launching attacks in the name of an imagined calling or a desire to stamp a view on the world is an output of that.

NorfolkWomble · Oct 3, 2017

Abertawe said:
That's not the same as "direct cause" which is what I was taking issue with.

Examples of lone wolfers, there are loads & loads.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/...tmhttps://web.archive.org/web/20091201133942/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...led-nailbomber-is-jailed-for-life-706785.html
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/09/25/world/teen-age-gunman-kills-himself-and-12-others-in-france.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1566321.stm
https://books.google.co.uk/booksid=nV5e5t4VzQ0C&pg=PA106&lpg=PA106&dq=christian+dornier&source=bl&ots=EaKjlN05sd&sig=QYuwhgefX_ormhVzJdcgb0PM0AU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi15MPQ_dTWAhWGXRoKHXxZCXkQ6AEIVDAI#v=onepage&q=christian dornier&f=false
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article7142413.ece
https://web.archive.org/web/20090503053515/http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8026807.stm
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...n/news-story/1c11a40bd6b7b68268732fc76fa1f04d

ISIS of itself ain't shit and they're certainly not the direct cause of anything imho. Deeper issues makes it lazy to just assert ISIS is causing this and be satisfied with that as a conclusion. Lot's of factors in play. The world is in a flux of huge disillusionment and voting perceived anti-establishment or launching attacks in the name of an imagined calling or a desire to stamp a view on the world is an output of that.

We currently have the same lonewolf attacks like these, plus a whole new wave of Islamist attacks. You're being blind if you can't recognise that. They are two distinct things. A young man walking into a school, shooting loads of kids and killing themselves is different from an attack with a political or religious motive. Not saying one is better or less evil than the other, but the two things are very very much different and require two different approaches to solve them.

Why are you so naive? ISIS calls for men to carry out lonewolf attacks. Men carry out lonewolf attacks whilst shouting or leaving information behind on who inspired them, or carrying an ISIS flag, and you keep putting your fingers in your ears and saying "it's nothing to do with ISIS". Pretty much the entire security/terrorism/extremism academic community disagree with you.

Abertawe · Oct 3, 2017

NorfolkWomble said:
We currently have the same lonewolf attacks like these, plus a whole new wave of Islamist attacks. You're being blind if you can't recognise that. They are two distinct things. A young man walking into a school, shooting loads of kids and killing themselves is different from an attack with a political or religious motive. Not saying one is better or less evil than the other, but the two things are very very much different and require two different approaches to solve them.

Why are you so naive? ISIS calls for men to carry out lonewolf attacks. Men carry out lonewolf attacks whilst shouting or leaving information behind on who inspired them, or carrying an ISIS flag, and you keep putting your fingers in your ears and saying "it's nothing to do with ISIS". Pretty much the entire security/terrorism/extremism academic community disagree with you.

I'm not the one being naive kidda nor am I the one trying to make sense of a world that doesn't make sense. Every passing second is unique so it would be wise to take each case on it's merit which I know is counter-intuitive to how you work but it's massively important. ISIS is a fiction. It's a marketed illusion. Making black & white declarations that anything of a islamic terrorist nature begin & ends with that mental image of ISIS you have in your head makes you the naive one. It's well more complex than how you so cockily assert it to be. You're trying to see the full picture without having an understanding this shit is interdimensional.

NorfolkWomble · Oct 3, 2017

Abertawe said:
I'm not the one being naive kidda nor am I the one trying to make sense of a world that doesn't make sense. Every passing second is unique so it would be wise to take each case on it's merit which I know is counter-intuitive to how you work but it's massively important. ISIS is a fiction. It's a marketed illusion. Making black & white declarations that anything of a islamic terrorist nature begin & ends with that mental image of ISIS you have in your head makes you the naive one. It's well more complex than how you so cockily assert it to be. You're trying to see the full picture without having an understanding this shit is interdimensional.

You're talking shite Aber. It really isn't some inexplicable phenomenon. ISIS isn't fiction. It exists. It is traceable. Global Islamist movements are traceable. Afghanistan, the Balkans and now Syria. Our bad foreign policy. An Islamic resurgence in the 1950s-now as a result of the end of colonialism, Arab impotence, Israel, Westernisation, petrodollars.

Almost every single Islamist now can be traced to the mujahideen that we supported in Afghanistan. They came to Afghanistan, with our support, then flocked across the world and spread those same ideas, and set up their own Islamist groups.

The global jihadist movement is a current. Pre-21st century it was largely Israel-Palestine, and then focused on Westerners in the Middle East and the "near enemy", Arab dictators. Then it was Al-Qaeda, focusing on big plots, 7/7/, 9/11, and all the failed attempts. Then it is ISIS, focusing largely on lone-wolf attacks and inspired terrorism.

The Paranoid Pineapple · Oct 4, 2017

This makes for depressing reading - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41488081 Support for a ban on handguns has actually been falling?! Christ.

Chilling thing about this as well is that the perpetrator was apparently not an avid gun nut, nor a man with military connections, yet he still managed to assemble an arsenal of weapons he used to kill people with, without anyone noticing. Just mad.

Abertawe · Oct 5, 2017

NorfolkWomble said:
You're talking shite Aber. It really isn't some inexplicable phenomenon. ISIS isn't fiction. It exists. It is traceable. Global Islamist movements are traceable. Afghanistan, the Balkans and now Syria. Our bad foreign policy. An Islamic resurgence in the 1950s-now as a result of the end of colonialism, Arab impotence, Israel, Westernisation, petrodollars.

Almost every single Islamist now can be traced to the mujahideen that we supported in Afghanistan. They came to Afghanistan, with our support, then flocked across the world and spread those same ideas, and set up their own Islamist groups.

The global jihadist movement is a current. Pre-21st century it was largely Israel-Palestine, and then focused on Westerners in the Middle East and the "near enemy", Arab dictators. Then it was Al-Qaeda, focusing on big plots, 7/7/, 9/11, and all the failed attempts. Then it is ISIS, focusing largely on lone-wolf attacks and inspired terrorism.

Nah it goes back further, research the history squire. You're only looking at the illusion.

NorfolkWomble · Oct 6, 2017

Abertawe said:
Nah it goes back further, research the history squire. You're only looking at the illusion.

The history of what? You're talking crap.

Abertawe · Oct 6, 2017

NorfolkWomble said:
The history of what? You're talking crap.

You're the one chatting crap. Trace it back to when we replaced the ottomans with filth and go from there you utter pillock. Ian was so right about you.

Super_horns · Oct 7, 2017

Car mounted pavement outside History Museum..

Number of injuries.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41538762

JaseTheVillain · Oct 7, 2017

Super_horns said:
Car mounted pavement outside History Museum..

Number of injuries.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41538762

Not terror related.

Abertawe · Oct 7, 2017

JaseTheVillain said:
Not terror related.

Millions left distraught.

silkyman · Oct 7, 2017

Hopkins and Farage are both inconsolable.

Super_horns · Oct 7, 2017

They will try and claim its some police cover up...

Ebeneezer Goode · Oct 7, 2017

Let's not lump Farage in with Hopkins. She's an actual loon.

Abertawe · Oct 7, 2017

silkyman said:
Hopkins and Farage are both inconsolable.

Farage isn't islamophobic he just makes hay from those that are, there's a difference.

The Paranoid Pineapple · Oct 7, 2017

Nah, Farage is odious. Deserves to be lumped in, and locked away in a padded cell, with Hopkins.

Wonder how long it will take for the Natural History Museum story to tumble down the news agenda now it's confirmed not to be terror related. I'll give it about an hour.

Stevencc · Oct 7, 2017

But then they might produce offspring.

The Paranoid Pineapple · Oct 7, 2017

Yikes, really didn't think that one through, did I

Abertawe · Oct 7, 2017

Farage is the only man who could defeat Corbyn. If they had any sense the Tories would make a bye-election happen in a safe seat and vote him leader. Imagine Farage & Trump, would be savage.

silkyman · Oct 7, 2017

Super_horns said:
They will try and claim its some police cover up...

Hopkins basically has already. Full on twitter meltdown telling people not to believe the reports that it 'wasn't terror related' and then snapped and deleted everything in a huff.

silkyman · Oct 7, 2017

Abertawe said:
Farage isn't islamophobic he just makes hay from those that are, there's a difference.

He's not islamophobic. Just good old fashioned racist.

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