League 2 Relegation Thread 2018/2019

JJ1532 · Mar 5, 2019

Optipez said:
I've thought this for a long time. The cost for clubs of long journeys, overnight stays and the lack of away fans further shrinking revenue makes it a very sensible thing to do.
The only argument i can really think of against it is that you may end up with a significant difference in standards between North and south.

The issue you would end up having is the one that the Conference North and South currently have, which is a group of almost southern based teams in the North. I mean, Brackley, Hereford, Leamington, Nuneaton and Kidderminster are all in the Conference North this season, which is hilarious. We've also seen teams like Oxford City up there as well.

Say you ran a hypothetical amalgamating exercise for L2 and the Conference Premier, giving you 2 leagues or L2N and L2S.

Well, by my reckoning, you are going to end up with a very skewed L2N. I have Carlisle, Morecambe, Bury, Oldham, Tranmere, Macc, Crewe, Port Vale, Mansfield, Notts County, Lincoln and Grimsby making the north from the old L2. Easy so far.

Then you add Gateshead, Hartlepool, Harrogate, Barrow, Fylde, Halifax, Salford, Wrexham and Chesterfield from the Conference Premier, who are either northern or borderline northern. Again, no issues. Add Solihull(midlands admittedly) and that's 22.

But to make 24, the next 2 most Southern teams are Northampton and Cambridge. So they'd have to get put in the North to balance things out. Can't imagine either would be thrilled with that prospect. I just don't think splitting the lower leagues into north and south sections would work out all that well.

northstandexile · Mar 5, 2019

I think eventually the 4x20 EFL will happen instead of the 3x24 that we have now. My view is that the 8 extra clubs should come from the conference.

The EFL chairmen would cry ‘foul’ as the tv money would have to be shared by 8 extra teams, the lower teams would be an extra league and one more promotion from the top and each team would lose four league games with all that entails with lose of income.

However I could see a way around these objections.

The eight fewer league games are actually the eight scheduled mid week games that actually drag in lower crowds and hospitality monies than weekend games. In order to compensate for this loss the EFL teams could play five midweek home games against EPL B sides.
The top five EPL B sides would play games against each championship team, giving the B teams 20 midweek games in a season. EPL 6-10 would play L1, EPL 11-15 would play L2 and EPL would play L3.

The big question is how can you make people watch these games.

For a start you make them free entry, but the EPL would pay each home club a set fee for each attendee. Also there needs to be an incentive for EFL teams to win the games. Either extra points for the League table or be qualification for later rounds of checkatrade.

The B teams would have their results count to their own ‘table’

So with this system everyone is a winner, even the lower league diehard supporter who hasn’t to go to Carlisle or Exeter on a Tuesday night.

Devon_Lad · Mar 5, 2019

northstandexile said:
I think eventually the 4x20 EFL will happen instead of the 3x24 that we have now. My view is that the 8 extra clubs should come from the conference.

The EFL chairmen would cry ‘foul’ as the tv money would have to be shared by 8 extra teams, the lower teams would be an extra league and one more promotion from the top and each team would lose four league games with all that entails with lose of income.

However I could see a way around these objections.

The eight fewer league games are actually the eight scheduled mid week games that actually drag in lower crowds and hospitality monies than weekend games. In order to compensate for this loss the EFL teams could play five midweek home games against EPL B sides.
The top five EPL B sides would play games against each championship team, giving the B teams 20 midweek games in a season. EPL 6-10 would play L1, EPL 11-15 would play L2 and EPL would play L3.

The big question is how can you make people watch these games.

For a start you make them free entry, but the EPL would pay each home club a set fee for each attendee. Also there needs to be an incentive for EFL teams to win the games. Either extra points for the League table or be qualification for later rounds of checkatrade.

The B teams would have their results count to their own ‘table’

So with this system everyone is a winner, even the lower league diehard supporter who hasn’t to go to Carlisle or Exeter on a Tuesday night.

That sounds awful. Let's just keep it as is.

northstandexile · Mar 5, 2019

Devon_Lad said:
That sounds awful. Let's just keep it as is.

Why does it sound awful?

Devon_Lad · Mar 5, 2019

northstandexile said:
Why does it sound awful?

Your B team suggestion is stupid. Your attempt to get rid of midweek games is equally as stupid. Midweek games are fixtures that many people can only attend. Putting 8 teams from the conference in the FL is daft - Those 8 would consist of teams like Harrogate, Flyde and Solihull. So along with the less home games and the loss in revenue, you need to also account for the shocking attendances these bring with them.

There is literally nothing wrong with the system as it is now. And you're suggesting change it massively into a complicated system that means less football, less money and helping out premier league B teams.

No. No. No.

Gladders · Mar 5, 2019

For once Devon lad made a post I can agree with

northstandexile · Mar 5, 2019

The EPL B team problem is not going go go away especially with the new rules on the number of players EPL teams can loan out in future.

This is a way to get B teams having fixtures against proper men’s football without them actually having them in our league and denying our teams promotion and making it a mockery.

The EFL even now schedule midweek games as far as possible for teams to travel who are miles away from each other. Next mid-week for instance Mansfield are at Crawley and Notts County are at Carlisle.

I agree Grimsby vs Cardiff B is an unattractive fixture and the only way you are going to get a crowd is for the EPL to pay.

Today’s EFL chairman need the EPL money whether you like it or not, and that is the majority of chairmen are interested in.

northstandexile · Mar 5, 2019

Devon_Lad said:
Your B team suggestion is stupid. Your attempt to get rid of midweek games is equally as stupid. Midweek games are fixtures that many people can only attend. Putting 8 teams from the conference in the FL is daft - Those 8 would consist of teams like Harrogate, Flyde and Solihull. So along with the less home games and the loss in revenue, you need to also account for the shocking attendances these bring with them.

There is literally nothing wrong with the system as it is now. And you're suggesting change it massively into a complicated system that means less football, less money and helping out premier league B teams.

No. No. No.

There would be less home games, in fact you would get five mid week games instead of four and these five would be free entry. The EPL would in effect pay your admission to your club.

The eight conference teams to be promoted could be vetted by needing extra ground facilities than are required at present to stop the rif raf out like they did in the eighties.

So your view of less home games, less revenue and tin pot opponents are all disproved.

Any more reasons?

Devon_Lad · Mar 5, 2019

northstandexile said:
There would be less home games, in fact you would get five mid week games instead of four and these five would be free entry. The EPL would in effect pay your admission to your club.

The eight conference teams to be promoted could be vetted by needing extra ground facilities than are required at present to stop the rif raf out like they did in the eighties.

So your view of less home games, less revenue and tin pot opponents are all disproved.

Any more reasons?

You haven't disproved anything.

Playing against a premier league B side isn't a fixture that people will attend for a quid, for free or even if you paid them. Especially when the only result is entering the bleddy checkatrade trophy a few rounds later. FL sides won't be fielding good sides, people won't be watching and it'll be an absolute farce. You want to scrap all meaningful Tuesday night games, you want to cut the fixture list massively and make FL clubs have less money.

It's that simple. Your reply to all of that is 'Premier league B teams' matches that nobody will attend, that you don't get points for, who will bring zero away fans. So along with premier league B sides, and 8 conference sides we now have in the league - How many teams will actually bring more than 50 away fans? Less than half.

Nobody in their right mind, who supports a FL club will want their club to be poorer and to play less football. And it IS less football. B team matches aren't actual football matches. They'll be boycotted by any legitimate football fan.

Laughable.

Deepcut Cobbler · Mar 5, 2019

When we had the north/south version of one of the tin pot cups, we used to change between the two almost every season. Hartlepool one season then Torquay the following, it would probably be the same ...

northstandexile · Mar 5, 2019

Like I said entry would be free and the EPL would pay your club an amount for each attendee.

By not attending you will be financially hurting your club.

They could even make it that winning these games could benefit your team by giving bonus points in the official EFL table.

I am sure people would attend for free if they knew their attendance benefitted their club financially and games affected their progress in a cup competition or league table points.

PuB · Mar 5, 2019

What an utter load of turd.

Buxton Vale · Mar 5, 2019

northstandexile said:
There would be less home games, in fact you would get five mid week games instead of four and these five would be free entry. The EPL would in effect pay your admission to your club.

The eight conference teams to be promoted could be vetted by needing extra ground facilities than are required at present to stop the rif raf out like they did in the eighties.

So your view of less home games, less revenue and tin pot opponents are all disproved.

Any more reasons?

this post needs a dislike button

KeithH · Mar 5, 2019

northstandexile said:
Like I said entry would be free and the EPL would pay your club an amount for each attendee.

By not attending you will be financially hurting your club.

They could even make it that winning these games could benefit your team by giving bonus points in the official EFL table.

I am sure people would attend for free if they knew their attendance benefitted their club financially and games affected their progress in a cup competition or league table points.

For God's sake stop now, nobody's interested id prem bloody b teams

Tranmerewhite · Mar 5, 2019

northstandexile said:
Like I said entry would be free and the EPL would pay your club an amount for each attendee.

By not attending you will be financially hurting your club.

They could even make it that winning these games could benefit your team by giving bonus points in the official EFL table.

I am sure people would attend for free if they knew their attendance benefitted their club financially and games affected their progress in a cup competition or league table points.

Good luck finding a single fan in the football league that shares your view.

GTFCfish · Mar 5, 2019

I’m reading Devon_Lads most recent posts and I actually agree with him.

I feel dirty.

Si Robin · Mar 5, 2019

What never gets taken into account in these debates is that the south of the country is so much larger than the North. If, for example, Truro were to get to the Football League South in this iteration then the journey from there to say, Ipswich, would be 20 miles shorter than Truro to Morecambe.

Gloucester City, who spent years in the NLN, are now in the South and their mileage per game is only slightly less than their previous mileage - and that's going from Gloucester, not Evesham where they're playing.

Railway Blue · Mar 6, 2019

markpvfc said:
I'd imagine we'll get a league 3 only when the Premier League B teams arrive.

Nooooooooooooooooooooo

Optipez · Mar 6, 2019

JJ1532 said:
The issue you would end up having is the one that the Conference North and South currently have, which is a group of almost southern based teams in the North. I mean, Brackley, Hereford, Leamington, Nuneaton and Kidderminster are all in the Conference North this season, which is hilarious. We've also seen teams like Oxford City up there as well.

Say you ran a hypothetical amalgamating exercise for L2 and the Conference Premier, giving you 2 leagues or L2N and L2S.

Well, by my reckoning, you are going to end up with a very skewed L2N. I have Carlisle, Morecambe, Bury, Oldham, Tranmere, Macc, Crewe, Port Vale, Mansfield, Notts County, Lincoln and Grimsby making the north from the old L2. Easy so far.

Then you add Gateshead, Hartlepool, Harrogate, Barrow, Fylde, Halifax, Salford, Wrexham and Chesterfield from the Conference Premier, who are either northern or borderline northern. Again, no issues. Add Solihull(midlands admittedly) and that's 22.

But to make 24, the next 2 most Southern teams are Northampton and Cambridge. So they'd have to get put in the North to balance things out. Can't imagine either would be thrilled with that prospect. I just don't think splitting the lower leagues into north and south sections would work out all that well.

For the teams on the border of north and south it will always throw up anomolies, so for Cambridge in the north one year, south the next it is a bit messy.
For the rest though it has to help financially.
As a fan although I've been all over supporting us I'm more likely to go to Lincoln, Mansfield and Crewe than Newport, Exeter and Yeovil ( been to all of them) because it's an easier trip. Notts are pretty central, Exeter and Carlisle have some mammoth trips, a long one now and again is fine but it has to affect away support week in week out.
I'm not evangelical about a regional L2 but it seems pragmatic with more derbies and local interest.

Devon_Lad · Mar 7, 2019

Anyone know what bookies are offering on teams to STAY up? I've had a look and can only find relegation odds. Wouldn't mind having a look at County's odds for survival and put a wedge on it

darren gregory · Mar 7, 2019

Pretty sure that there was some weird thing in the past few years where Lowestoft were in the National League North and Barrow clinched promotion there.
No idea how Lowestoft came to be in that League.

darren gregory · Mar 7, 2019

Devon_Lad said:
Anyone know what bookies are offering odds on teams to STAY up? I've had a look and can only find relegation odds. Wouldn't mind having a look at County's odds for survival and put a wedge on it

Usually oddschecker is the place to scour but i can't find anything anywhere mate.

darren gregory · Mar 7, 2019

Found it mate

Paddypower offering 13/10

https://www.paddypower.com/football/english-league-2?tab=outrights

Devon_Lad · Mar 7, 2019

darren gregory said:
Usually oddschecker is the place to scour but i can't find anything anywhere mate.

Yeah I had a look there.

darren gregory said:
Found it mate

Paddypower offering 13/10

https://www.paddypower.com/football/english-league-2?tab=outrights

Cheers. don't have a Paddy account and it'll stay that way for the time being. Don't think those odds are very good at all for Notts, was expecting at least 2/1

Habbinalan · Mar 7, 2019

darren gregory said:
Pretty sure that there was some weird thing in the past few years where Lowestoft were in the National League North and Barrow clinched promotion there.
No idea how Lowestoft came to be in that League.

One of Barrow's best away days that season and I was there. It was a bloody trek for me and I live near Cambridge. However

northstandexile · Mar 7, 2019

Don’t forget that Bishop’s Stortford was in Conference North one year and they are miles south of Cambridge.

Devon_Lad · Mar 7, 2019

Anyone north of Tiverton should be in a Northern league if it's split, as they're all northerners

AdamStag · Mar 7, 2019

Hereford are in the conference north as well, which is bizarre.

Chris FGR · Mar 7, 2019

northstandexile said:
There would be less home games, in fact you would get five mid week games instead of four and these five would be free entry. The EPL would in effect pay your admission to your club.

The eight conference teams to be promoted could be vetted by needing extra ground facilities than are required at present to stop the rif raf out like they did in the eighties.

So your view of less home games, less revenue and tin pot opponents are all disproved.

Any more reasons?

northstandexile said:
Like I said entry would be free and the EPL would pay your club an amount for each attendee.

By not attending you will be financially hurting your club.

They could even make it that winning these games could benefit your team by giving bonus points in the official EFL table.

I am sure people would attend for free if they knew their attendance benefitted their club financially and games affected their progress in a cup competition or league table points.

MrGloverLover · Mar 7, 2019

Devon_Lad said:
Anyone north of Tiverton should be in a Northern league if it's split, as they're all northerners

Weymouth fans used to sing "You dirty northern bastards" at us.

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