Club size in order

Chris FGR · May 22, 2019

It was nothing like Barca's. It clearly said FGR on it. If anything they copied us.

Kim Jong Un · May 22, 2019

Chris FGR said:
Yes, not a popular decision at the time and even though we've got used to it there are still many that would prefer us to wear our traditional colours.

I never said we weren't tinpot tbf. But we are a proper long established tinpot club.

Christ, didn't realise you had stopped playing in Black & White, shows how out of touch I am. Why do these rich owners always try and change kit colours ffs.

I don't mind FGR, totally tinpot but harmless. Lovely part of the world.

Trapdoor · May 22, 2019

imagine changing your strip after 1910. :msi:

GTFCfish · May 22, 2019

shoddycollins said:
We beat Roma 4-2 in Rome.

We beat Cleethorpes Town 4-3 in Cleethorpes.

Pablosammy · May 22, 2019

Trapdoor said:
imagine changing your strip after 1910.

Can only imagine the uproar if EDF bought Tranmere (or any other non-tinpot football club) and changed our kit to their corporate orange and blue. It's simply unthinkable.

shoddycollins · May 22, 2019

Pablosammy said:
Can only imagine the uproar if EDF bought Tranmere (or any other non-tinpot football club) and changed our kit to their corporate orange and blue. It's simply unthinkable.

There's a thought. Examples of clubs who have worn the corporate colours of their sponsor.

FGR are the obvious example, but we wore Eddie Stobart's corporate colours of green, red and gold as our away colours when they first sponsored us.

Ironically, when Vincent Tan changed Cardiff's colours to red he was changing them from the Malaysian Tourist Board's corporate colour, which is blue.

GEORGE · May 22, 2019

Conker said:
Didn’t dale change kit colour? That’s tinpot tbf.

And also the club name for a while. Did'nt you become known as Stroud at one point ??

shoddycollins · May 22, 2019

GEORGE said:
And also the club name for a while. Did'nt you become known as Stroud at one point ??

That was pre-Dale, an ill-fated attempt to win fans from the the big town next door.

Son of Cod · May 22, 2019

shoddycollins said:
There's a thought. Examples of clubs who have worn the corporate colours of their sponsor.

FGR are the obvious example, but we wore Eddie Stobart's corporate colours of green, red and gold as our away colours when they first sponsored us.

Ironically, when Vincent Tan changed Cardiff's colours to red he was changing them from the Malaysian Tourist Board's corporate colour, which is blue.

Luton with EasyJet? I know they had orange in the past, but they always had a bit of navy blue on there. Their first EasyJet kit was a shameless fully orange marketing ploy. Was a different orange to their previous ones too. I grew up thinking of Luton as white shirts, blue shorts and a bits of orange. Wasn't until I looked up their kit history that I realised they don't tend to stay put for too long.

Pablosammy · May 22, 2019

Son of Cod said:
Luton with EasyJet? I know they had orange in the past, but they always had a bit of navy blue on there. Their first EasyJet kit was a shameless fully orange marketing ploy. Was a different orange to their previous ones too. I grew up thinking of Luton as white shirts, blue shorts and a bits of orange. Wasn't until I looked up their kit history that I realised they don't tend to stay put for too long.

They did play in mostly orange in the 70s (and the 2011-13 shirt was a direct nod to those designs), but you have a point... it's a clear advertising move, albeit using colours that were roughly in keeping with the club's history. Interestingly they've kept the orange in the post-Easyjet era rather than returning to their more traditional white.

Fedora Dale · May 22, 2019

In literary terms, "Cider With Rosie" is a bigger book than "Love On The Dole". Therefore Forest Green are bigger than $alford...

Posh Harry · May 22, 2019

Son of Cod said:
This is what it has all been building up to ever since TFF was around. It's like the Whitewalkers finally getting beyond the wall on GoT.

Oh ffs soc. Spoiler alert!!

Son of Cod · May 22, 2019

Posh Harry said:
Oh ffs soc. Spoiler alert!!

Haha sorry, but come on Harry, that's obviously gonna happen. I haven't even watched any of the new ones but it's what the whole thing is building up to!

Chris FGR · May 22, 2019

GEORGE said:
And also the club name for a while. Did'nt you become known as Stroud at one point ??

Fucking hell, you can't pin that on him, that was more then 20 years before he'd even heard of us lol.

Trevor Horsley hadn't even taken over the club yet at that point. First thing he did was change the name back. Absolute legend him, massively missed.

The Jovial Forester · May 23, 2019

Fedora Dale said:
In literary terms, "Cider With Rosie" is a bigger book than "Love On The Dole". Therefore Forest Green are bigger than $alford...

I served that Laurie Lee in the pub a couple of times when I was a youth!

Jabba the gut · May 23, 2019

Conker said:
Changing kit colours at a new chairman whim is almost starting over.

As others have mentioned the worst thing is that they changed the colours to match the corporate colour scheme of their owners energy company - they're Ecotricity Marketing FC in all but name.

Jabba the gut · May 23, 2019

Chris FGR said:
Our budget is nowhere near the top ones in this league and rightly so. We're a small club and should spend accordingly, so it was good to see we made a profit last season. Be interesting to see if Salford make a profit next season, somehow I doubt it.

Salford can eff off to hell and they're in a league of their own as far as doping and shafting the ethos of lower league football is concerned, but you FGR lot are being unbelievably disingenuous. You absolutely did dope your way out of the Conference in a manner only three or four sides have ever done. You conveniently ignore the massive losses you made in successive years while you were buying your way out - over £4m in two years.

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co....ews/forest-green-rovers-report-losses-1196303

In 2017 you paid out almost £150k more in agents fees and other transfer-related fees alone than any other Conference side - £174k. The next on the list was the vastly bigger club Wrexham with only £26k. You actually paid more than every other Conference club combined, more than any club in L2 bar Portsmouth and more than a number of L1 clubs, so it's ridiculous to claim you aren't where you are because of intensive doping.

Jabba the gut · May 23, 2019

Myblueheaven04 said:
...Its very hard to for everybody to agree on such a debate...In the prem UTD are by far the biggest team and that is not disputed, they have no real recent success but will still be deemed the biggest.
The rest of the prem would never agree on the rest, are Newcastle bigger than Liverpool ??

Your post is interesting and 99% well-argued, but this made me do a double-take. Who in their right mind could argue that Newcastle, with their mediocre history in which the last of their trophies was in 1955, the last of their 4 league titles was in 1927 with only 6 other top 3 finishes and with the club located in a second-level region of the football industry, are remotely in the same category as world-famous, multiple European, League and domestic cup winners Liverpool, located in a significantly bigger and more historically important city/urban area, with a bigger fanbase in one of the country's three major footballing centres?

None of us can brag about who's bigger than who really, we are all pretty cr*p at the minute !!

We're bigger than Macclesfield though.

(Oi'll get me coat.)

Jabba the gut · May 23, 2019

Chris FGR said:
We get bigger crowds home and away then Crawley, Stevenage, Morecambe and Macclesfield. And like those we have quite a long history at a decent level in non league. So we're not 'far smaller' then them.

You must be joking. Stevenage have always been a bigger club and had bigger crowds than you the vast majority of the time - they've averaged over or very close to 3k in every season since 2011 bar the last two years, in which they still achieved around 2.5k. They have only once dipped below 2k since 2004 and have never averaged below 1.5k since they were promoted to the Conference in 1995.

They've won a Conference title, played three seasons in the 3rd tier - including getting to the L1 playoffs - and have reached the fifth round of the FA Cup once and the fourth round three times in twenty years, Twice of those fourth-round appearances came in relatively recent history. They've also won the FA Trophy twice.

When they won in 2007 they had a very decent turnout. By contrast your Wembley crowds have been an embarrassment - photos of your "end" when you lost the playoff final attracted widespread ridicule for the minuscule number of fans you took. I appreciate it's a much easier to reach Wembley from Stevenage, but that doesn't account for the huge disparity.

By contrast you have never reached a 3k average in your entire history, did not break 2k until last season and have only broken the 1k barrier nine times - and in most of those you barely scraped over the 1k line. You have never played in the third tier, won a title, or a more prestigious trophy than the FA Vase, or progressed beyond the third round of the FA Cup.

Sorry, but Stevenage are significantly bigger.

You are also completely wrong about Crawley. They historically get bigger crowds than you and did so even before the money. In fact it's only the last two seasons in which you have just about beaten their attendances.

They have broken 3k in recent years and haven't dipped below 2k since 2010. In fact by marked contrast with yourselves they have only twice dipped below four figures in the last 20 years. Even in the four seasons between 2000/01 and 2003/04 before the money, when they were in the 6th tier and you were in the 5th they had higher average attendances three times - they twice broke 1k in the 6th tier. That's a barrier you did not break until 2007, which was actually your 9th season in the 5th tier after your 1999 promotion.

They have also won a title, spent three seasons in the third tier and reached the FA Cup 5th round twice, which as I have already demonstrated is a record you have never come close to equalling.

Sorry again, but Crawley are indisputably a bigger club than FGR.

In at least the last quarter of a century Morecambe have also outdone your attendances 99% of the time.

Unlike yourselves, in the last ten years they have exceeded 2k, or come within 60 fans of that figure 8 times. Again unlike yourselves they have only dipped below 1500 averages four times since 1997 and on two of those occasions only by less than a hundred fans. Morecambe haven't had a sub 1k crowd since they were in the 6th tier in the mid-nineties.

By complete contrast you have only exceeded 1.5k a mere FIVE times in your entire history, with all of those seasons coming in the last five years, when you began challenging for promotion to the League with Vince's money and attracted the inevitable glory hunters & Cheltenham fans. To repeat, you didn't manage to even break 1k until 2007 - a significantly worse record than Morecambe, or any of the other clubs you mystifyingly claim parity with.

Sorry for the third time, but Morecambe are certainly bigger than you. Both their stadiums were arguably better than both of yours as well - certainly the old Christie Park was better than the embarrassment you used to have with its single portaloo for 600 of us the first time we played you.

I've started so I'll finish and guess what - Macclesfield also have a significantly bigger historical attendance than you do and a better league and cup record.

They have one 3k+ average, and twelve 2k+ averages stretching back to 1998 compared with your measly two 2k+ averages since 2017-18. They won two Conference titles and have a far better and longer EFL history - which would have been even longer at our expense had they managed to sort their ground out. They have also reached the third tier and the fourth round of the FA Cup - and they achieved that without the same level of doping you have enjoyed.

Sorry, sorry and sorry again, but Macclesfield are also a historically bigger club than FGR in any way you want to look at it.

I wonder how FGR fans on here are so deluded about their comparative history with other clubs? Is it something in the vegan pies, or are they only considering the very few years since they have bought success when they try and claim they have "much bigger crowds" than Stevenage, Crawley, Morecambe and Macclesfield?

Its as ridiculous as me saying we're bigger than Notts County because for one season in 2008 we had bigger crowds than they did when we nearly won the L2 title, or that we're bigger than Oldham and similar sides, because we had an unusual and temporary spike to nearly 6k and beat them in attendances in the 3 seasons we were in L1 and came within a point of the L1 playoffs.

It shouldn't matter who gets the biggest crowds and whatnot anyway. I'd rather be a good club than a "big one". Some of the best fun I've had is at the fantastic Corinthian Casuals, who have a few hundred fans, but are unusually passionate and have a fantastic ethos. I have a hundred times more respect for them than I do for many much bigger clubs I could mention.

Having said that, while Salford are in another universe of tinpot, being a largely fake, hijacked club, nobody else in the football league is historically smaller than FGR with the possible exception of Fleetwood (who admittedly would definitely be the smallest and most tinpot without the L1 seasons they've bought and paid for).

Jabba the gut · May 23, 2019

Jerry said:
Yes you're probably right, as I said we would be the smallest team in the league if we ever return (other than the tinpotters ).

No way. Historically speaking and probably when you come back, by contrast with the false claims of the FGR fans you really do have better historical attendances overall than Stevenage, Crawley, Macclesfield, Morecambe (and of course FGR) as well as many more 3rd tier seasons, a much longer EFL history and a better FA Cup record overall - although the very recent cup record of some of those sides is better.

Jabba the gut · May 23, 2019

Chris FGR said:
Fucking hell, you can't pin that on him, that was more then 20 years before he'd even heard of us lol.

Trevor Horsley hadn't even taken over the club yet at that point. First thing he did was change the name back. Absolute legend him, massively missed.

Errr... doesn't Vince actually want to move you lock stock and barrel to Stroud, as opposed to your previous owners simple name-change? What will then be left of the old club bar the name? (And I wouldn't bet on even that lasting long-term if you do move there).

Posh Harry · May 23, 2019

Son of Cod said:
Haha sorry, but come on Harry, that's obviously gonna happen. I haven't even watched any of the new ones but it's what the whole thing is building up to!

Lol. Only started watching it a month or so ago. Having to watch 3 or 4 a night to watch before drops off Now TV. At least I can skip that part and save myself a bit of time

Stringy · May 23, 2019

Jabba the gut said:
You must be joking. Stevenage have always been a bigger club and had bigger crowds than you the vast majority of the time - they've averaged over or very close to 3k in every season since 2011 bar the last two years, in which they still achieved around 2.5k. They have only once dipped below 2k since 2004 and have never averaged below 1.5k since they were promoted to the Conference in 1995.

They've won a Conference title, played three seasons in the 3rd tier - including getting to the L1 playoffs - and have reached the fifth round of the FA Cup once and the fourth round three times in twenty years, Twice of those fourth-round appearances came in relatively recent history. They've also won the FA Trophy twice.

When they won in 2007 they had a very decent turnout. By contrast your Wembley crowds have been an embarrassment - photos of your "end" when you lost the playoff final attracted widespread ridicule for the minuscule number of fans you took. I appreciate it's a much easier to reach Wembley from Stevenage, but that doesn't account for the huge disparity.

By contrast you have never reached a 3k average in your entire history, did not break 2k until last season and have only broken the 1k barrier nine times - and in most of those you barely scraped over the 1k line. You have never played in the third tier, won a title, or a more prestigious trophy than the FA Vase, or progressed beyond the third round of the FA Cup.

Sorry, but Stevenage are significantly bigger.

You are also completely wrong about Crawley. They historically get bigger crowds than you and did so even before the money. In fact it's only the last two seasons in which you have just about beaten their attendances.

They have broken 3k in recent years and haven't dipped below 2k since 2010. In fact by marked contrast with yourselves they have only twice dipped below four figures in the last 20 years. Even in the four seasons between 2000/01 and 2003/04 before the money, when they were in the 6th tier and you were in the 5th they had higher average attendances three times - they twice broke 1k in the 6th tier. That's a barrier you did not break until 2007, which was actually your 9th season in the 5th tier after your 1999 promotion.

They have also won a title, spent three seasons in the third tier and reached the FA Cup 5th round twice, which as I have already demonstrated is a record you have never come close to equalling.

Sorry again, but Crawley are indisputably a bigger club than FGR.

In at least the last quarter of a century Morecambe have also outdone your attendances 99% of the time.

Unlike yourselves, in the last ten years they have exceeded 2k, or come within 60 fans of that figure 8 times. Again unlike yourselves they have only dipped below 1500 averages four times since 1997 and on two of those occasions only by less than a hundred fans. Morecambe haven't had a sub 1k crowd since they were in the 6th tier in the mid-nineties.

By complete contrast you have only exceeded 1.5k a mere FIVE times in your entire history, with all of those seasons coming in the last five years, when you began challenging for promotion to the League with Vince's money and attracted the inevitable glory hunters & Cheltenham fans. To repeat, you didn't manage to even break 1k until 2007 - a significantly worse record than Morecambe, or any of the other clubs you mystifyingly claim parity with.

Sorry for the third time, but Morecambe are certainly bigger than you. Both their stadiums were arguably better than both of yours as well - certainly the old Christie Park was better than the embarrassment you used to have with its single portaloo for 600 of us the first time we played you.

I've started so I'll finish and guess what - Macclesfield also have a significantly bigger historical attendance than you do and a better league and cup record.

They have one 3k+ average, and twelve 2k+ averages stretching back to 1998 compared with your measly two 2k+ averages since 2017-18. They won two Conference titles and have a far better and longer EFL history - which would have been even longer at our expense had they managed to sort their ground out. They have also reached the third tier and the fourth round of the FA Cup - and they achieved that without the same level of doping you have enjoyed.

Sorry, sorry and sorry again, but Macclesfield are also a historically bigger club than FGR in any way you want to look at it.

I wonder how FGR fans on here are so deluded about their comparative history with other clubs? Is it something in the vegan pies, or are they only considering the very few years since they have bought success when they try and claim they have "much bigger crowds" than Stevenage, Crawley, Morecambe and Macclesfield?

Its as ridiculous as me saying we're bigger than Notts County because for one season in 2008 we had bigger crowds than they did when we nearly won the L2 title, or that we're bigger than Oldham and similar sides, because we had an unusual and temporary spike to nearly 6k and beat them in attendances in the 3 seasons we were in L1 and came within a point of the L1 playoffs.

It shouldn't matter who gets the biggest crowds and whatnot anyway. I'd rather be a good club than a "big one". Some of the best fun I've had is at the fantastic Corinthian Casuals, who have a few hundred fans, but are unusually passionate and have a fantastic ethos. I have a hundred times more respect for them than I do for many much bigger clubs I could mention.

Having said that, while Salford are in another universe of tinpot, being a largely fake, hijacked club, nobody else in the football league is historically smaller than FGR with the possible exception of Fleetwood (who admittedly would definitely be the smallest and most tinpot without the L1 seasons they've bought and paid for).

How is it possible to argue this topic with so much passion? Fully admire it btw. :lol:

Son of Cod · May 23, 2019

Posh Harry said:
Lol. Only started watching it a month or so ago. Having to watch 3 or 4 a night to watch before drops off Now TV. At least I can skip that part and save myself a bit of time

Haha ah okay sorry! Well, that's not really a part - more like a gradual storyline so not sure if you'll be able to skip. Honestly don't think what I have said has spoilered too my much, my friend.

ProfessorGreen · May 23, 2019

Jabba the gut said:
Well that's undoubtedly true. The problem is that Plymouth have a group of fans who insist they're big in absolute terms, not just relatively speaking. They argue they are a natural top-flight team and at least as big as say, Barnsley and Blackpool.

We, like every club, have a few clowns but even 99% of them don't think we are a Premiership club... It looks to me as if you pay more attention to 1 or 2 slightly over egged opinions than that of our actual fan base.

Do we feel a touch hard done by when you see teams from cities like: Norwich, Swansea, Bournemouth, Hull, Huddersfield, Preston, Burnley and yes Barnsley and Blackpool (the list goes on) having spells of success? Yes of course - most of them are geographically far smaller cities than Plymouth, and have way more teams in their locality competing for support and players. Especially because we were on the brink of it before the administration days. Bound to leave a bitter taste in the mouth.

But yes as you later go on to mention we are majorly adversely impacted by the fact we are so isolated and the fact that the country seems to stop at Bristol in footballing terms.

You lot have done it in the rugby, which I know is different, but it still proves that top athletes will come this far if the circumstances and setup are right. Our catchment area for football is the whole of Devon and Cornwall - I have no shame in saying I come to watch the Exeter Chiefs play sometimes, in fact regularly go to the corporate setup with work. If we were ever to make it to the Prem I have no doubt people and businesses would travel from Exeter to come and see the football too.

Someone in the industry mentioned to me the other day that Councils have been buying the land alongside the A38, so there's obiously something planned. Will take decades to get it all bought and works done though. The airport issue I'd love to see it reopened but it isn't as big an issue as it seems. Exeter Airport is 50 minutes away - it can take longer to get to most London airports when you live in London. Would rather money was spent sorting out the Plymouth - Exeter ridiculous rail line.

I think considering the above it's not unfair of our fanbase to want us to be a consistent Championship side. Think we've missed the boat though. Too much money floating around the top 2 leagues and the gap has become huge.

Si Robin · May 23, 2019

Jabba the gut said:
You must be joking. Stevenage have always been a bigger club and had bigger crowds than you the vast majority of the time - they've averaged over or very close to 3k in every season since 2011 bar the last two years, in which they still achieved around 2.5k. They have only once dipped below 2k since 2004 and have never averaged below 1.5k since they were promoted to the Conference in 1995.

They've won a Conference title, played three seasons in the 3rd tier - including getting to the L1 playoffs - and have reached the fifth round of the FA Cup once and the fourth round three times in twenty years, Twice of those fourth-round appearances came in relatively recent history. They've also won the FA Trophy twice.

When they won in 2007 they had a very decent turnout. By contrast your Wembley crowds have been an embarrassment - photos of your "end" when you lost the playoff final attracted widespread ridicule for the minuscule number of fans you took. I appreciate it's a much easier to reach Wembley from Stevenage, but that doesn't account for the huge disparity.

By contrast you have never reached a 3k average in your entire history, did not break 2k until last season and have only broken the 1k barrier nine times - and in most of those you barely scraped over the 1k line. You have never played in the third tier, won a title, or a more prestigious trophy than the FA Vase, or progressed beyond the third round of the FA Cup.

Sorry, but Stevenage are significantly bigger.

You are also completely wrong about Crawley. They historically get bigger crowds than you and did so even before the money. In fact it's only the last two seasons in which you have just about beaten their attendances.

They have broken 3k in recent years and haven't dipped below 2k since 2010. In fact by marked contrast with yourselves they have only twice dipped below four figures in the last 20 years. Even in the four seasons between 2000/01 and 2003/04 before the money, when they were in the 6th tier and you were in the 5th they had higher average attendances three times - they twice broke 1k in the 6th tier. That's a barrier you did not break until 2007, which was actually your 9th season in the 5th tier after your 1999 promotion.

They have also won a title, spent three seasons in the third tier and reached the FA Cup 5th round twice, which as I have already demonstrated is a record you have never come close to equalling.

Sorry again, but Crawley are indisputably a bigger club than FGR.

In at least the last quarter of a century Morecambe have also outdone your attendances 99% of the time.

Unlike yourselves, in the last ten years they have exceeded 2k, or come within 60 fans of that figure 8 times. Again unlike yourselves they have only dipped below 1500 averages four times since 1997 and on two of those occasions only by less than a hundred fans. Morecambe haven't had a sub 1k crowd since they were in the 6th tier in the mid-nineties.

By complete contrast you have only exceeded 1.5k a mere FIVE times in your entire history, with all of those seasons coming in the last five years, when you began challenging for promotion to the League with Vince's money and attracted the inevitable glory hunters & Cheltenham fans. To repeat, you didn't manage to even break 1k until 2007 - a significantly worse record than Morecambe, or any of the other clubs you mystifyingly claim parity with.

Sorry for the third time, but Morecambe are certainly bigger than you. Both their stadiums were arguably better than both of yours as well - certainly the old Christie Park was better than the embarrassment you used to have with its single portaloo for 600 of us the first time we played you.

I've started so I'll finish and guess what - Macclesfield also have a significantly bigger historical attendance than you do and a better league and cup record.

They have one 3k+ average, and twelve 2k+ averages stretching back to 1998 compared with your measly two 2k+ averages since 2017-18. They won two Conference titles and have a far better and longer EFL history - which would have been even longer at our expense had they managed to sort their ground out. They have also reached the third tier and the fourth round of the FA Cup - and they achieved that without the same level of doping you have enjoyed.

Sorry, sorry and sorry again, but Macclesfield are also a historically bigger club than FGR in any way you want to look at it.

I wonder how FGR fans on here are so deluded about their comparative history with other clubs? Is it something in the vegan pies, or are they only considering the very few years since they have bought success when they try and claim they have "much bigger crowds" than Stevenage, Crawley, Morecambe and Macclesfield?

Its as ridiculous as me saying we're bigger than Notts County because for one season in 2008 we had bigger crowds than they did when we nearly won the L2 title, or that we're bigger than Oldham and similar sides, because we had an unusual and temporary spike to nearly 6k and beat them in attendances in the 3 seasons we were in L1 and came within a point of the L1 playoffs.

It shouldn't matter who gets the biggest crowds and whatnot anyway. I'd rather be a good club than a "big one". Some of the best fun I've had is at the fantastic Corinthian Casuals, who have a few hundred fans, but are unusually passionate and have a fantastic ethos. I have a hundred times more respect for them than I do for many much bigger clubs I could mention.

Having said that, while Salford are in another universe of tinpot, being a largely fake, hijacked club, nobody else in the football league is historically smaller than FGR with the possible exception of Fleetwood (who admittedly would definitely be the smallest and most tinpot without the L1 seasons they've bought and paid for).

Conker · May 23, 2019

No confusion really, FGR are clearly a significantly bigger club than Salford and Stevenage and Crawley are obviously a step above FGR.

24. Salford.

Trapdoor · May 23, 2019

ProfessorGreen said:
If we were ever to make it to the Prem I have no doubt people and businesses would travel from Exeter to come and see the football too.

LOL.

Sure they would buddy. :fl:

The Jovial Forester · May 23, 2019

Jabba the gut said:
You must be joking. Stevenage have always been a bigger club and had bigger crowds than you the vast majority of the time - they've averaged over or very close to 3k in every season since 2011 bar the last two years, in which they still achieved around 2.5k. They have only once dipped below 2k since 2004 and have never averaged below 1.5k since they were promoted to the Conference in 1995.

They've won a Conference title, played three seasons in the 3rd tier - including getting to the L1 playoffs - and have reached the fifth round of the FA Cup once and the fourth round three times in twenty years, Twice of those fourth-round appearances came in relatively recent history. They've also won the FA Trophy twice.

When they won in 2007 they had a very decent turnout. By contrast your Wembley crowds have been an embarrassment - photos of your "end" when you lost the playoff final attracted widespread ridicule for the minuscule number of fans you took. I appreciate it's a much easier to reach Wembley from Stevenage, but that doesn't account for the huge disparity.

By contrast you have never reached a 3k average in your entire history, did not break 2k until last season and have only broken the 1k barrier nine times - and in most of those you barely scraped over the 1k line. You have never played in the third tier, won a title, or a more prestigious trophy than the FA Vase, or progressed beyond the third round of the FA Cup.

Sorry, but Stevenage are significantly bigger.

You are also completely wrong about Crawley. They historically get bigger crowds than you and did so even before the money. In fact it's only the last two seasons in which you have just about beaten their attendances.

They have broken 3k in recent years and haven't dipped below 2k since 2010. In fact by marked contrast with yourselves they have only twice dipped below four figures in the last 20 years. Even in the four seasons between 2000/01 and 2003/04 before the money, when they were in the 6th tier and you were in the 5th they had higher average attendances three times - they twice broke 1k in the 6th tier. That's a barrier you did not break until 2007, which was actually your 9th season in the 5th tier after your 1999 promotion.

They have also won a title, spent three seasons in the third tier and reached the FA Cup 5th round twice, which as I have already demonstrated is a record you have never come close to equalling.

Sorry again, but Crawley are indisputably a bigger club than FGR.

In at least the last quarter of a century Morecambe have also outdone your attendances 99% of the time.

Unlike yourselves, in the last ten years they have exceeded 2k, or come within 60 fans of that figure 8 times. Again unlike yourselves they have only dipped below 1500 averages four times since 1997 and on two of those occasions only by less than a hundred fans. Morecambe haven't had a sub 1k crowd since they were in the 6th tier in the mid-nineties.

By complete contrast you have only exceeded 1.5k a mere FIVE times in your entire history, with all of those seasons coming in the last five years, when you began challenging for promotion to the League with Vince's money and attracted the inevitable glory hunters & Cheltenham fans. To repeat, you didn't manage to even break 1k until 2007 - a significantly worse record than Morecambe, or any of the other clubs you mystifyingly claim parity with.

Sorry for the third time, but Morecambe are certainly bigger than you. Both their stadiums were arguably better than both of yours as well - certainly the old Christie Park was better than the embarrassment you used to have with its single portaloo for 600 of us the first time we played you.

I've started so I'll finish and guess what - Macclesfield also have a significantly bigger historical attendance than you do and a better league and cup record.

They have one 3k+ average, and twelve 2k+ averages stretching back to 1998 compared with your measly two 2k+ averages since 2017-18. They won two Conference titles and have a far better and longer EFL history - which would have been even longer at our expense had they managed to sort their ground out. They have also reached the third tier and the fourth round of the FA Cup - and they achieved that without the same level of doping you have enjoyed.

Sorry, sorry and sorry again, but Macclesfield are also a historically bigger club than FGR in any way you want to look at it.

I wonder how FGR fans on here are so deluded about their comparative history with other clubs? Is it something in the vegan pies, or are they only considering the very few years since they have bought success when they try and claim they have "much bigger crowds" than Stevenage, Crawley, Morecambe and Macclesfield?

Its as ridiculous as me saying we're bigger than Notts County because for one season in 2008 we had bigger crowds than they did when we nearly won the L2 title, or that we're bigger than Oldham and similar sides, because we had an unusual and temporary spike to nearly 6k and beat them in attendances in the 3 seasons we were in L1 and came within a point of the L1 playoffs.

It shouldn't matter who gets the biggest crowds and whatnot anyway. I'd rather be a good club than a "big one". Some of the best fun I've had is at the fantastic Corinthian Casuals, who have a few hundred fans, but are unusually passionate and have a fantastic ethos. I have a hundred times more respect for them than I do for many much bigger clubs I could mention.

Having said that, while Salford are in another universe of tinpot, being a largely fake, hijacked club, nobody else in the football league is historically smaller than FGR with the possible exception of Fleetwood (who admittedly would definitely be the smallest and most tinpot without the L1 seasons they've bought and paid for).

This is all true but none of it refutes Chris's modest claim that we're not "far smaller". Let's have ten more pages of this fascinating debate!

Chris FGR · May 23, 2019

It's quite sad how someone can go on such a long rant without reading my quote properly to refute a claim that I didn't make.

We currently get bigger crowds then those teams, fact, and we have like them had spent a fair number of years at a decent level of non-league before making it into the league. Fact. Are we 'far smaller' then them at this point? I would say no, but I'm not sure why that's so important to an Exeter fan.

The same person who says he doesn't have a problem with Bournemouth getting doped to the Prem due to them being a long established league 1/2 club, seems to have a major problem with us shooting up all of one league having been long established in the league below. What a strange individual.

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