National League 2017-18

Fyldefan · Mar 19, 2018

B2TF you need to get out more. What even is that shite that you’re constantly saying

genesimmons · Mar 19, 2018

B2TF said:
No REAL football club should be in favour of 3 up 3 down - in a league where the gap between clubs with 1500-3000 fans and those with 2-300 can be comfortably bridged with a cheque for 2 or 3 hundred thousand pounds, it will only serve to further encourage the bankrolled-Tin-Potter phenomenon. The only winners are the megalomaniac chairmen soothing their own egos on an utterly pointless quest to ram some Mickey Mouse outfit into a world where they don't belong, and the losers are the REAL clubs who run themselves properly on the money they've earned through the turnstiles and merchandise sales, and now find themselves outspent by NOTHING clubs, with no fans and NOTHING to offer the game at all. 3 up 3 down only condemns another REAL club each season to this football limbo that is the National League. And for what? 30 years after the introduction of automatic relegation there are only 12 teams in the Football League that weren't there in 1987, 9 of them in what is still Division 4, regardless of what they choose to call it.

These are mostly Southern based (i.e. where the money is). Meanwhile, the clubs now outside the Football League that were present in 1987, are mostly Northern based (i.e where the fans are).

In summary, more promotion places only benefits the Tin Potters and works against the REAL clubs' interests.

You are like a stuck record. Remember these tinpot clubs as you call them have been around longer than halifax

Southern Shayman · Mar 19, 2018

genesimmons said:
You are like a stuck record. Remember these tinpot clubs as you call them have been around longer than halifax

Without wanting to defend, B2TF, the irony in that statement coming from you is astounding :lol:

genesimmons · Mar 19, 2018

Southern Shayman said:
Without wanting to defend, B2TF, the irony in that statement coming from you is astounding [emoji38]

Whatever you say

B2TF · Mar 20, 2018

You've only to look at who chimes up when I make these observations, to see that I'm right. :fl:

JaredSUFC · Mar 20, 2018

I have B2TF on ignore. It's better that way, the same joke since whenever is boring

Boz · Mar 20, 2018

I wasn’t aware of the stat B2TF has quoted about team turnover and it’s quite surprising to me, how poorly the promoted sides have fared in the last 3 decades.Personally think 2 up is about right.
If there was a mechanism to assess fairly, I’d be in favour of some sort of fan base barrier to promotion based on attendance and number of season ticket-holders. That might direct money-bags owners towards building a fan base rather than just throwing money at their side.

AdamStag · Mar 20, 2018

I completely think it should be 3 up 3 down.

Having been in both, I think it's vitally important that it's done ASAP.

Whereas the quality at the top of league 2 is something well beyond the means of the usual non-league side, the bottom 6/8 teams are probaly on par with the top 6/8 in the conference. Surely the seasons of Hartlepool and Orient should back this up.

It's bizarre that league 2 has 4 teams that go up but 2 down. Top 2 up auto and do whatever it is you've done to the playoffs - which look kinda funky tbh.

Given the backward decision from the powers that be about 3G pitches, I don't expect this'll change any time soon

E10rifle · Mar 20, 2018

AdamStag said:
Whereas the quality at the top of league 2 is something well beyond the means of the usual non-league side, the bottom 6/8 teams are probaly on par with the top 6/8 in the conference. Surely the seasons of Hartlepool and Orient should back this up.

Only if you’re a complete moron and think that the absolute basket cases going on at the two clubs is in any way representative of the regular relegated sides. We haven’t got a single senior player from last season. Teams that got relegated because they were just sh*t, like Brizzle, Barnet, Cheltenham or yourselves all bounced back quickly.

bigtimecharlie_ · Mar 21, 2018

Three up three down is fair. Only two clubs (Cheltenham & Bristol Rovers) have bounced straight back to the football league in the last 13 years. Honestly, I can't even remember the last time a newly promoted side were instantly relegated out of the league, maybe not even in the 2000's?

As others have said however, I can't see it changing any time soon.

Boz · Mar 21, 2018

I’d agree that the circumstances at Orient and Hartlepool where there have been major problems in the running of that pair mean that you can’t class them as typical relegated L2 sides.

However, Rovers were definitely in the relegated because ‘just shit’ category, but haven’t bounced back quickly.

genesimmons · Mar 21, 2018

bigtimecharlie_ said:
Three up three down is fair. Only two clubs (Cheltenham & Bristol Rovers) have bounced straight back to the football league in the last 13 years. Honestly, I can't even remember the last time a newly promoted side were instantly relegated out of the league, maybe not even in the 2000's?

As others have said however, I can't see it changing any time soon.

I cant recall a side ever been instantly relegated from league 2 after promotion. Lets be honest it tends to be full time teams with league 2 standard grounds who gain promotion so never that much out of there depth. Im struggling to recall the last part time team promoted into the league. Would be intresting if a side had a lucky day a wembley but not the money toneither turn pro or improve there ground. Would they be demoted?

E10rifle · Mar 21, 2018

Boz said:
I’d agree that the circumstances at Orient and Hartlepool where there have been major problems in the running of that pair mean that you can’t class them as typical relegated L2 sides.

However, Rovers were definitely in the relegated because ‘just shit’ category, but haven’t bounced back quickly.

You lost the playoff final last year and could conceivably still be promoted in your second season down here. Not exactly been a real struggle. The only traditional League clubs which spring to mind that’ve been relegated on a relatively sure footing (I.e. not in danger of liquidation) and floundered about for years have been Cambridge and Lincoln, both of which are back in the 92.

Habbinalan · Mar 21, 2018

E10rifle said:
You lost the playoff final last year and could conceivably still be promoted in your second season down here. Not exactly been a real struggle. The only traditional League clubs which spring to mind that’ve been relegated on a relatively sure footing (I.e. not in danger of liquidation) and floundered about for years have been Cambridge and Lincoln, both of which are back in the 92.

Our footing was so secure that we went into administration (April 2005), lost our ground to a crook and only avoided winding up by HMRC thanks to the intervention of Sports Minister, Richard Caborn - deserving of a place in our Hall of Fame.

We started the 2005/2006 season by coming out of administration (22 July), put Rob "Buzz Lightyear" Newman in charge and he had to build a new cheap squad around Ageing Andy Duncan and a few youngsters. We fielded such memorable journeymen of the local leagues as Dave Robertson (Deeping Rangers), David Chick (King's Lynn) and Parys Okai (Bedford Town) before we moved on to the likes of the awful Trevor Robinson and the unforgettable Gavin Heeroo.

Tom_CUFC · Mar 21, 2018

We were a basket case:

In 2005, after 35 years in the Football League, Cambridge United were relegated into the Football Conference. This brought with it financial difficulties and the club filed for administration on 29 April. On 22 July 2005 the club came out of administration with a deal being struck with HM Revenue and Customs at the eleventh hour after the intervention of then sports minister Richard Caborn. Cambridge had sold their Abbey Stadium home earlier in the season for £1.9 million to keep the club afloat.

Luke Imp · Mar 21, 2018

We were just shit when we got relegated, but relegation fucked with us financially and we found it difficult to recover and build any momentum. We had 5 players taking up a third of the budget for a start.

Our budget was £1.6m in our L2 relegation season but then dropped to £900k-ish and come December/January of our first season we had to cut it again to £500k and signed tonnes of players on non-contract terms and short term deals. That's basically where the budget stayed until crowds started picking up last season.

So a £1.1m budget drop in 7 months was a huge one and our finishing positions generally mirrored our budget up until last season.

Soup Ladle · Mar 21, 2018

E10rifle said:
Teams that got relegated because they were just sh*t, like Brizzle, Barnet, Cheltenham or yourselves all bounced back quickly.

Which is why if Barnet come down, they'll be one of the favourites for promotion because with all due respect, this is their level and they've always been a yo-yo club.

Chesterfield I'd expect to go the way of us two.

E10rifle · Mar 21, 2018

Tom_CUFC said:
We were a basket case:

I knew Rolls was a clown, but I didn’t realise the depth of the trouble you were in. Another one to add to the list of ‘proving my point’.

Raymondo316 · Mar 22, 2018

Ebbsfleet made a loss of 2 million last season
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/gravesend/sport/the-cost-of-promotion-180095/

Habbinalan · Mar 22, 2018

E10rifle said:
I knew Rolls was a clown, but I didn’t realise the depth of the trouble you were in. Another one to add to the list of ‘proving my point’.

Rolls (and various others) got through the door because we were a basket case. He didn't cause the decline - that was down to a number of us taking our eyes of the ball.

I have to include our current owner in that long list of naive and trusting patsies but bless him for staying the course.

1884 Belmont · Mar 22, 2018

Boz said:
I’d agree that the circumstances at Orient and Hartlepool where there have been major problems in the running of that pair mean that you can’t class them as typical relegated L2 sides.

However, Rovers were definitely in the relegated because ‘just shit’ category, but haven’t bounced back quickly.

I wouldn't say that - we had some serious issues off the pitch, mainly we were skint. Remember, we apparently gave Rob Edwards a £700k budget for League 2, which is probably a mid-table National League budget. Even when Palios took over and we released the purse strings a little, we went through 3 managers and about 75 players that year too, because it was an absolute balls-up from all involved.

Our League Two season was the culmination of a decade of being a basket case - Sack Ronnie after missing L1 play-offs by 2 minutes, appoint Barnes, replace Barnes with the club physio, sack physio and replace with manager originally sacked for Barnes, top L1 table in January and finish in 11th, sack Ronnie for betting offences and the club ending up for sale on eBay! That's all before the actual on-field calamity took place.

E10rifle said:
You lost the playoff final last year and could conceivably still be promoted in your second season down here. Not exactly been a real struggle. The only traditional League clubs which spring to mind that’ve been relegated on a relatively sure footing (I.e. not in danger of liquidation) and floundered about for years have been Cambridge and Lincoln, both of which are back in the 92.

This is our third season down here. We came down with Cheltenham in 2015.

Boz · Mar 22, 2018

1884 Belmont said:
I wouldn't say that - we had some serious issues off the pitch, mainly we were skint. Remember, we apparently gave Rob Edwards a £700k budget for League 2, which is probably a mid-table National League budget. Even when Palios took over and we released the purse strings a little, we went through 3 managers and about 75 players that year too, because it was an absolute balls-up from all involved.

Our League Two season was the culmination of a decade of being a basket case - Sack Ronnie after missing L1 play-offs by 2 minutes, appoint Barnes, replace Barnes with the club physio, sack physio and replace with manager originally sacked for Barnes, top L1 table in January and finish in 11th, sack Ronnie for betting offences and the club ending up for sale on eBay! That's all before the actual on-field calamity took place.

Agree with most of that. If Ronnie had been allowed to stay, despite the betting issue, think he’d have probably kept just us up. If we’d replaced with a proper manager rather than McMahon, think they’d have probably kept us up. Rob Edwards under resourced and out of his depth. Adams was given too much money and made a total mess of things, his spell at Rovers makes Barnes look like Sir Alex by comparison. The side he left us with were by and large shit, one decent player Max Power inevitably moved on. Peter Johnson has been helping out financially now, but if we’d used the same money when we were a FL club I’d suggest would never have been in this situation.

Ronaldo to Wrexham · Mar 22, 2018

We got screwed over by a Herman munster lookalike and batman's arch enemy the penguin .then along came toss and robber our so called saviours, who managed to do what the previous clowns failed to do and relieve us of some of our land. Despite attempts to sell to any chancer that showed an interest finally the fans got ownership and hopefully we are now on the right track. We came down due to being financially run down and being shit.

B2TF · Mar 23, 2018

JaredSUFC said:
I have B2TF on ignore. It's better that way, the same joke since whenever is boring

B2TF · Mar 23, 2018

AdamStag said:
I completely think it should be 3 up 3 down.

Having been in both, I think it's vitally important that it's done ASAP.

Whereas the quality at the top of league 2 is something well beyond the means of the usual non-league side, the bottom 6/8 teams are probaly on par with the top 6/8 in the conference. Surely the seasons of Hartlepool and Orient should back this up.

It's bizarre that league 2 has 4 teams that go up but 2 down. Top 2 up auto and do whatever it is you've done to the playoffs - which look kinda funky tbh.

Given the backward decision from the powers that be about 3G pitches, I don't expect this'll change any time soon

Ok, so they bring in 3 up 3 down. 5 years later there's even more long established Football League clubs with huge fan bases, stuck down here, bleeding supporters every year they are here, and for what? To allow one or two Mickey Mouse Tin Potters, with a hundred real fans and 1000 band wagonners, who'd no idea their village even had a pub team 2 years previously, to paddle about with the Big Boys for a season or two, on the back of some rich tosser on a personal ego trip? And those now wanting 3 up 3 down will be begging for 4 up 4 down. Enough! NO! :dis:

RLC · Mar 23, 2018

Boz said:
Agree with most of that. If Ronnie had been allowed to stay, despite the betting issue, think he’d have probably kept just us up. If we’d replaced with a proper manager rather than McMahon, think they’d have probably kept us up. Rob Edwards under resourced and out of his depth. Adams was given too much money and made a total mess of things, his spell at Rovers makes Barnes look like Sir Alex by comparison. The side he left us with were by and large shit, one decent player Max Power inevitably moved on. Peter Johnson has been helping out financially now, but if we’d used the same money when we were a FL club I’d suggest would never have been in this situation.

It was an unusual set of circumstances that led to our relegation. We were not screwed by our owners like most of the ex-League clubs down here, but we just gradually withered through neglect and poor decision making.

Peter Johnson did not want to drive us into the ground, but his age, his frustration at not finding a suitable new owner, his detachment from the club when he moved to Switzerland and his lack of judgement in giving people like John Barnes and Jeremy Butler responsibility resulted in our demise.

genesimmons · Mar 23, 2018

B2TF said:
Ok, so they bring in 3 up 3 down. 5 years later there's even more long established Football League clubs with huge fan bases, stuck down here, bleeding supporters every year they are here, and for what? To allow one or two Mickey Mouse Tin Potters, with a hundred real fans and 1000 band wagonners, who'd no idea their village even had a pub team 2 years previously, to paddle about with the Big Boys for a season or two, on the back of some rich tosser on a personal ego trip? And those now wanting 3 up 3 down will be begging for 4 up 4 down. Enough! NO!

As if you would complain if a rich tosser on a ego trip as you call them bankrolled halifax and got them back into league two

Boz · Mar 23, 2018

RLC said:
It was an unusual set of circumstances that led to our relegation. We were not screwed by our owners like most of the ex-League clubs down here, but we just gradually withered through neglect and poor decision making.

Peter Johnson did not want to drive us into the ground, but his age, his frustration at not finding a suitable new owner, his detachment from the club when he moved to Switzerland and his lack of judgement in giving people like John Barnes and Jeremy Butler responsibility resulted in our demise.

I find it very hard in squaring the circle where Peter Johnson is concerned. He was close to getting the Trust on board when we were in L1 days, but suddenly changed tack and brought in Jeremy Butler.After handing over to the Palioi, he’s carried on with financial help. While Rovers fans will forever be grateful for the backing in the Johnny King era, getting us close to the top flight, but some of his decisions in later years were just strange.

Bluandwite · Mar 24, 2018

Not sure where to post this but this seems like a good place - https://englandsfuture.wordpress.com/2018/03/23/chester-fc-youth-academy-success-on-a-shoestring/

Good to see us thriving in one place at least, locally the likes of Crewe and Tranmere are starting to struggle in this sphere. Hopefully some of these lads can make impact in the Conference North next season.

B2TF · Mar 24, 2018

genesimmons said:
As if you would complain if a rich tosser on a ego trip as you call them bankrolled halifax and got them back into league two

I wasn't aware we'd ever met, yet you presume that you know my every waking thought- perhaps you are the Gateshead fan who occasionally joins us on an away day, or at The Shay, rather than endure the soul destroying 2 hours that pass for a matchday experience up in his home town. Those who ACTUALLY know me will vouch for my principles on this issue.

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