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European Union Referendum

Discussion in 'News & Current Affairs' started by Alty, May 30, 2015.

?

How do you see yourself voting?

  1. Stay In

    63.5%
  2. Leave

    36.5%
  1. mowgli

    mowgli Well-Known Member Moderator Site Supporter

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    To be honest i can't see May being PM for when Brexit is sorted she'll be kicked out by a challanger long before then.
     
  2. TheMinsterman

    TheMinsterman Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Likely, and if that's the case, it's another Tory, are any of her potential replacements screaming competent and skilled enough to deliver a Brexit that works?
     
    .V. likes this.
  3. mowgli

    mowgli Well-Known Member Moderator Site Supporter

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    I did think Rees-Mogg until his comments in the week put paid to his chances and rightly so.
     
  4. smat

    smat Well-Known Member

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    I find that a stupid thread because it presupposes that there is any chance that all EU nationals currently in the country will be deported or something. It's bollocks when there's plenty to put the boot in about anyway.

    Namely the undemocratic European Union (Withdrawal) Bill the government is trying to push through, which would give them the power to make legislation without consulting parliament. Considering that parliamentary sovereignty and increased democratisation was a central plank of the apparently more enlightened British Exiters' argument...

    This whole thing is quite embarrassing. The German car industry, prosecco and brie isn't going to save us when the EU's main priority - as they have always stated! - is the integrity of the single market. The EU probably is being a bit intransigent and inflexible in these negotiations, but it does seem like David Davis - and many Tory British Exiters - didn't have a clue what departure would actually entail. Davis said the other day "nobody pretended this would be simple or easy", except he did, and so did Liam Fox and countless others. And they are all completely and utterly rubbish and have no idea what they're doing, or what the UK even wants from British Exit.

    50,000 marched against it today but I still doubt public opinion has changed enough to stop us from British Exiting. Maybe the pressure will mount as what British Exit actually means becomes clearer and clearer, but that may not happen in time. The best way to change people's minds would be to show them the chaos of a No Deal British Exit, and by then it'll be too late.
     
  5. Abertawe

    Abertawe Site Supporter Site Supporter

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    People aren't that bothered bro. We're out, RULE BRITANNIA!
     
  6. smat

    smat Well-Known Member

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    [EXTREMELY NERD VOICE] Actually we're not out
     
    Martino Quackavelli and .V. like this.
  7. Laker

    Laker Well-Known Member

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    You're right, but the whole thing was that getting out was the fundamental point - who delivered it was a separate matter and I would imagine our "deal" with the EU will change as time goes on, as relationships between countries do.

    So yes, the negotiations now are important but they are not the end of it. At the moment I'm not upset with how it is progressing though my perception does seem to be that the UK puts forward a proposal and the EU says "no, try again" without actually putting anything forward as a compromise aside from stating that the bill to leave is €100m without providing any backing for it.

    As a side point, I voted labour as I disagreed with the Tory welfare policy (or lack of). I was more confident in the Tory approach towards the EU at the time of the general election but it was all a bunch of unknowns to be honest as the labour position on the EU wasn't fully defined.

    Edit: also silkyman asked what I'm doing about it and my point was to ask what he wanted me to do? I'm not exactly going to be campaigning on the streets against a result I voted for am I? Not quite sure what he expected my answer to be but then most of his questions on this thread seem to be rhetorical. I just sometimes bite because they irritate the fuck out of me. :)
     
    markwwfc1992 and Krazy8 like this.
  8. TheMinsterman

    TheMinsterman Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    TBF Laker, it wasn't anything personal, it's more a general annoyance with the whole process.

    I wasn't staunchly pro-EU, but I voted stay because there was no coherent vision offered, just vague, wishy washy platitudes and patriotic slogans, nobody had a plan for what we'd do if we left, there should have been a firm bit of "breathing space" to prepare for the process properly, May just waltzed in and triggered it then rushed an election, I'd rather we had a few years of parties building sound Brexit strategies to take to the public based on the fact we voted out, have a proper "Brexit election" and move forward from there with solid plans implemented by people who are not just doing it because they don't want to commit political career suicide and defy the will of the people.

    It'd have given us clearer ideas on what Brexit would be, it would allow a genuine debate and discussion about the realities and give people time to think what they want their Brexit to look like (or not look like if a party was offering to not go ahead with it) and then vote to put the people in place to implement it.

    It's a huge decision that has been rushed farcically because Cameron tried to play power politics after crushing the opposition North of the border and nobody in government is really all that enthusiastic for it and instead of taking time to let the publics decision sink in and really work on a viable solution the Tories have decided to plough ahead ASAP, seemingly, regardless of the looming problems.
     
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  9. .V.

    .V. Well-Known Member

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  10. AFCB_Mark

    AFCB_Mark Administrator Staff Member Admin

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  11. Abertawe

    Abertawe Site Supporter Site Supporter

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    If we think we've had it bad under this undemocratic crap called the EU it's nothing compared to some member states. It's just a shame everything is so tied in economically or else I'd love to see it crash overnight.
     
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  12. Aber gas

    Aber gas Site Supporter Site Supporter

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    Big vote tonight on the repeal bill. Wonder if the "woke" Tories will put their beliefs first and vote against the government.
     
  13. mowgli

    mowgli Well-Known Member Moderator Site Supporter

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    And Labour MP's in a constituency that voted to leave vote with their constituents wishes.
     
  14. Aber gas

    Aber gas Site Supporter Site Supporter

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    It's not about leaving, it's about a Tory government wanting powers to circumvent the rule of law and parliamentary democracy. All the sort of things you people bang on about.
     
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  15. Abertawe

    Abertawe Site Supporter Site Supporter

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    BBC are setting the narrative perfectly so far today. Corbyn's call to vote against is against democracy and any MP's going against will raise question marks over the leadership. You dig? Oh and poor David Davis is working day & night try'na get a deal.
     
  16. smat

    smat Well-Known Member

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    Next round of talks moved to take place after a major speech by Theresa May. Change of course or smth?
     
  17. AFCB_Mark

    AFCB_Mark Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    A big speech by Juncker today to set out his aims for the future of the EU. Headlines include:

    Help and encouragement for non Euro EU members to adopt the Euro currency
    Changes around debate and voting on foreign policy matters
    The creation of one Finance Minister post
    A common defence force by 2025 (Nick Clegg's "dangerous fantasy" :lol:)
    MEPs not necessarily representing a particular nation, but able to represent multiple nations (not clear on the mechanics of this)
    An overall theme of moving forwards post Brexit, forward meaning further integration for the EU27, and looking to increase that 27 further if possible (although explicitly ruling out Turkey).

    All a lot like a manifesto really. So if anyone disagrees with any of Juncker's aims - Just vote him out at the next election.
    Oh.
     
  18. The Paranoid Pineapple

    The Paranoid Pineapple Well-Known Member

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    Whatever one thinks of Juncker (and I don't care for him very much) his position is an elected one. He was nominated to serve a five-year term by the European Council (comprising heads of state/government), and was formally elected by the European Parliament (directly elected by EU citizens) so what exactly is the problem?
     
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  19. mowgli

    mowgli Well-Known Member Moderator Site Supporter

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    The fact that he's known more for boozing than being a statesman? Poland's PM complained about it but drunken Juncker's mate also a Pole Tusk refused to take it further,Cameron said that Downing Street used to hide the alcohol if Juncker had a morning meeting at number 10. Juncker was also done for fraud in Luxembourg that led to him having to resign as leader.
     
  20. silkyman

    silkyman Well-Known Member

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  21. The Paranoid Pineapple

    The Paranoid Pineapple Well-Known Member

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    Worst thing is that he blatantly doesn't believe a word of it. Everything he does is so incredibly calculated and self-serving. What a complete shit.
     
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  22. Laker

    Laker Well-Known Member

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    Aside from it being a lie, it just looks unprofessional. I don't know what Boris thought he was going to achieve with requoting that but it just makes him look even more stupid.

    That said, what is said in the press isn't relevant to the negotiations.
     

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