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European Union Referendum

Discussion in 'News & Current Affairs' started by Alty, May 30, 2015.

?

How do you see yourself voting?

  1. Stay In

    63.1%
  2. Leave

    36.9%
  1. Indian Dan

    Indian Dan Well-Known Member

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    I bet the Labour Party are glad they lost the GE and didn’t have to sort this mess out.

    Being a cynical old git, it wouldn’t surprise me if there is another GE shortly so they have to.

    Also, as a leaver, this is becoming more trouble than its worth. The only sensible solution now is to remain in the CU and Single Market to solve the Irish problem - but there’s no way the EU would sanction that. The very essence of cherry picking.
     
  2. PuB

    PuB Well-Known Member

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    There's no way the Tory party would accept that either. Nor, a lot of the right leaning media outlets.
     
  3. Laker

    Laker Well-Known Member

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    That's all subjective really and misses the point of that paragraph from my post - we will/can reach an outcome on those points, my bet is somewhere in the middle of each side's ideal. Likewise with trade on the whole.

    However the Ireland border issue is being hindered by a party pushing a position to suit one side's needs rather than a "best for all" solution. And until the DUP is out of the government (either with a Tory minority government or another general election) then I don't see how that will change as their view is so entrenched, it's fundamental to the DUP's existence. It's a massive conflict of interest which is holding this thing back.
     
  4. Abertawe

    Abertawe Site Supporter Site Supporter

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    the EU don't have to meet us in the middle. we were the ones to leave. - it's no secret that they are absolutely uncompromising when it comes to negotiations as their USP to member states requires it to be so - the reason we had a referendum was because they wouldn't negotiate let's not forget. for that and to which smat highlighted the hard-line posturing from our serving government was always going to fail. we should just pay to have membership on the condition we don't have free movement from the crap countries. that's an achievable and sensible goal IMO.
     
  5. PuB

    PuB Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, it's been so cringey watching Downing Street try to pull every negotiating tactic in the book, the EU do not have to give us an inch. We are literally bent over a barrel with the two options being 1) what the EU want, or 2) crashing out with a no deal.
     
    .V. likes this.
  6. smat

    smat Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't really taking umbrage with anything you had said, it was just something that occurred to me really. I think as the realities start to reveal themselves it's going to be important for the public to remember what they were told by Leavers (Remain bullshitted too, but they lost so that's academic).

    I don't even think it is that subjective. Which side is making concessions and which is standing its ground? That's as clear an indicator as we can get as to who has the most to lose. I can't remember where I saw this but I think the consequences of a no deal Brexit are about 4.5% of GDP for the UK, and on average about 0.35% for EU27 (might not be correct figures but in that ballpark). They don't want it to happen but they can absorb it. We have far more to lose than Germany.

    It's a shame Captain Scumbag and Alty saw fit to Brexit themselves into global irrelevance but I think their own (and Ebeneezer Goode's relative) silence speaks volumes about how it's going. It reminds me of how you can usually tell how well Liverpool are doing by how often Bilo is posting (no offence Bilo).

    Edit: additionally, to be fair to the DUP, I don't think they are standing in the way of a 'best for all' solution, simply because there isn't one. Well, staying in the EU is probably best, but the chances of that being on the table are vanishingly small.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  7. Bilo

    Bilo Well-Known Member

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    fuck you smat
     
    Techno Natch, Krazy8, PuB and 3 others like this.
  8. .V.

    .V. Well-Known Member

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    Only one man can save us from this disaster.

     
  9. silkyman

    silkyman Well-Known Member

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    A key question for me is what exactly is Davis lying about.

    He has spent months telling us all that the impact assessments exist, that they are in 'excruciating detail', that the PM has seen the summaries, that they are so in depth and comprehensive that the very thought of the EU seeing them would demolish our position.

    And now, suddenly. Nothing. They are nothing. They have never been anything. We have done absolutely no research on what happens after brexit and we're jumping off the cliff anyway.

    So he's lying. That much is certain.

    But about what?

    Did he spend month lying about the existence of the impact assessments, or is he lying now?

    Has he decided that showing the public just how fucked we all are if this goes through is somehow more damaging than showing himself up to be potentially in contempt of parliament?

    How bad WERE they?
     
  10. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Captain Scumbag and Alty post on the forum at all any more since the politics section became so toxic. In general I don't think there's been much Brexit talk at all because it's all so tedious. We don't know what the deal will be and following the Tories' ineptitude is just depressing. I think more should probably be made of Cameron's cowardice though. He saw the job ahead of him and abandoned the country when it actually probably needed him.
     
  11. smat

    smat Well-Known Member

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    Yes. The politics section is too toxic now, after 15 years of being not toxic and completely fine, at the exact same moment in history that they both had to defend Brexit. I definitely believe that.

    In agreement about Cameron though, it's absolutely scandalous how he's got off the hook. Fucking teflon wanker.
     
  12. smat

    smat Well-Known Member

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    This morning's agreement states that if we can't find ‘specific solutions’ to Irish border problems, we ‘will maintain full alignment’ with rules of the Customs Union and Single Market. So it's basically a soft Brexit.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
    mnb089mnb likes this.
  13. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Well-Known Member

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    The worst of both worlds.

    Time for Farage to re-enter the fray.
     
  14. Abertawe

    Abertawe Site Supporter Site Supporter

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    frustrating we're being fed tidbits - freedom of movement for example?
     
  15. AFCB_Mark

    AFCB_Mark Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    A single unitary authority for urban Dorset
    Can't disagree re Cameron.

    From what I've had a chance to read so far, it feels to me as if the can has just been kicked down the road regarding some of the biggest issues. We won't really know the situation with the island of Ireland or customs/movement of people etc for a while yet. That goes somewhat against the EU's rhetoric this whole time that everything else needs to be settled before we can talk trade. Instead with got all this stuff the major details of which will depend on what is agreed regarding trade, and so will continue being political footballs.

    Nice to have a simple no fuss agreement on the rights of EU citizens in the UK and UK folks in the EU. There's been so much gnashing of teeth over nothing on that front.
     
  16. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Well-Known Member

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    If it's in line with the single market then that means open borders to the entire EU again.
     
  17. Abertawe

    Abertawe Site Supporter Site Supporter

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    not even this shambles of a government would pay to retain the worst disadvantages of the EU - surely. I was always in favour of paying for access to the customs union & single market on the proviso they tweaked freedom of movement. if they've submitted on that then surely there will be an election as half the cabinet said that wasn't an option.
     
  18. Super_horns

    Super_horns Well-Known Member Moderator

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    Well at least they've agreed something.

    Thought nothing would happen.

    Everyone can now move onto the next issue (Trade)
     
  19. Laker

    Laker Well-Known Member

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    Quite like the two Brexiteer debaters being hammered for not being here still, as if this forum is the necessity of life.

    Most of the time I don't reply, clearly not because I just don't have the time but because we're "losing". That's it. Totally.

    Also my original reason for registering here was, funnily enough, to post about football occasionally. I only really post on here to provide some balance to the super Remain community we have here. In "real life" I'm not half as passionate about any of this stuff.
     
  20. TheMinsterman

    TheMinsterman Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    In what way is the politics forum "toxic" now? All that has actually been done to it is banning obvious trolls who aren't trying engage honestly, nobody else has their views censored.
     
  21. TheMinsterman

    TheMinsterman Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    I know you deleted your reply EG, but seriously, where people think other members are just using ad homs and distracting from the topics please do feel free to report it or PM me, some weeks I am just busy and haven't necessarily seen it, prompting me means I am more likely to do so.

    I want the politics forum to be active and with different views, whether I agree with them isn't really relevant.
     
  22. smat

    smat Well-Known Member

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    It's quite decent of you to defend them. I'm sure they'd be capable of sticking up for themselves, had they not run away like so many Davis Camerons.
     
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  23. The Paranoid Pineapple

    The Paranoid Pineapple Well-Known Member

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    Ahahahaha. Imagine having the fucking audacity to complain about this place becoming too toxic (snowflake) only to pine after Nigel fucking Farage. Please tell me you're a parody account.
     
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  24. Laker

    Laker Well-Known Member

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    I don't know them at all but if that's the depth of the witty response they would have had to deal with then I don't blame them.
     
  25. PuB

    PuB Well-Known Member

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    Such a toxic response to reply to.

    I demand my account be blocked and removed
     
  26. claret50

    claret50 Site Supporter Site Supporter

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    [​IMG]
     
  27. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Well-Known Member

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    I don't think snowflake means what you think it means, and I didn't complain, I simply explained why certain people couldn't be arsed with this place any more. What Farage has to do with it I'm not sure, he's one of the more frank and likeable characters in British politics.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
  28. Techno Natch

    Techno Natch Well-Known Member

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    Farage utterly played the British public and he does very well at playing the ale drinking socialite that is just like me and you. Of course he is total c*** that given half a chance would run a Nintendo competition and cream the profit off the top. The reality is that he's happy to cash in his EU pension and claim a bit of money for his shite radio show. He's played it well.
     
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  29. Abertawe

    Abertawe Site Supporter Site Supporter

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    the light hasn't shone on this figure of hate nigel farage yet. what are people seeing that I am not - Cornish pixie called for him to be hanged which I thought is a bit out of proportion. do people imagine this narrative or I'd there something horrendous I've omitted from my thought process?
     
  30. Benji

    Benji Well-Known Member

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    Its nearly the end of 2017 and Ebeneezer Goode is still smitten with Nige.
     
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