Fifty years after the Lisbon lions - what went wrong?

Bilo

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Through seeing Celtic's new kit I realized it's 50 years since Celtic were the first British team to lift the European cup in Lisbon 1967. Surely few other cup wins are as renowned, with so many tributes and of course "John, you're immortal now". I'm not sure why that quote is so famous but it adds something.

Celtic obviously played a part in my upbringing as Henrik Larsson kept banging them in, and even past his peak he could go on to Barca and United and perform. The gap has widened quickly.

But since we now have this little anniversary, I'd like to ask the Scottish contingent to write something down regarding this, it'd be an interesting read for a fair weather Premier League fan like myself. Basically, why has no other Scottish team won it in those 50 years, and why has the decline seemingly accelerated over the past decade or so?

I'll shamelessly add tags because not even you lot check this section regularly.

St. Juste , SALTIRE , Leo
 

Leo

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#3
Through seeing Celtic's new kit I realized it's 50 years since Celtic were the first British team to lift the European cup in Lisbon 1967. Surely few other cup wins are as renowned, with so many tributes and of course "John, you're immortal now". I'm not sure why that quote is so famous but it adds something.

Celtic obviously played a part in my upbringing as Henrik Larsson kept banging them in, and even past his peak he could go on to Barca and United and perform. The gap has widened quickly.

But since we now have this little anniversary, I'd like to ask the Scottish contingent to write something down regarding this, it'd be an interesting read for a fair weather Premier League fan like myself. Basically, why has no other Scottish team won it in those 50 years, and why has the decline seemingly accelerated over the past decade or so?

I'll shamelessly add tags because not even you lot check this section regularly.

St. Juste , SALTIRE , Leo
Been busy today and have just sat down....gonna relax with a bottle of plonk and not have to think to much. All going well I'll stick something up tomorrow.
 

Dirk

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Interesting thread, Bilo (although Leo is actually more interested in talking about "his sausage" :D ).

Is it really 50 years ago now that Celtic won it all? Wow, time flies. I'll google the new shirt (with an 50th anniversary badge?) asap. One question:
Why didn't they make such a shirt with a special 50th year anniversary badge already for the start of the last season because the European Cup Final was in May 1967 (which was the 1966/67 season).
I only ask because Eintracht Braunschweig celebrated their only German Championship in 1967 last year with a 50year anniversary special logo on the shirts too and they won the Championship in May 1967 too

Anyway, what happened since then? Scotland was very competitive still in the 70's their national team made it to Germany in 1974 and they didn't disappoint (although they haven't reached anything here), a team full of very well known players. And matches against Scottish clubs (not only Rangers or Celtic but the 2 Dundee clubs or Aberdeen and even Hearts were a good show when they played against German clubs and they won some of them). I would say with the beginning of the 80's the "slump" of Scottish football already begun and then with the installation of the English Premier League and the tv money it went down even more and the Scottish clubs in Europe are no great thread for the big nations anymore (although Rangers reached the UEFA Cup Final in 2008 but that's the exception that proves the rule)
 
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Leo

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What's happened since. Well in 1967, same year as Celtic's historic win, Rangers reached the final of the European Cup Winners Cup final where they faced the classy Germans Bayern Munich in Nuremberg but unfortunately lost 1-0 due to a goal in extra time (Franz Roth iirc). They then reached and won (3-2) the final of the same tournament in 1972. 1969 saw them reach the semi final of the Fairs Cup but were beaten over 2 legs by Newcastle Utd. Celtic again reached the final of the European Cup in 1970 but lost to Feynoord in Milan. In 2008 Rangers reached the final of the UEFA cup but lost to Zenit S P. Aberdeen in 1983 reached and won the final of the ECWC against Real Madrid & they also won the UEFA Super Cup that year. Those successes apart, there hasn't been much worth shouting about. As you'll see I'm specifically talking about domestic teams as I take little interest in International matters. Anyway, over the years young players with genuine talent that have graduated through their teams various levels have in the main sought a higher standard of football and obviously a vastly superior salary by going to England so imo this is a contributory factor to falling levels within Scottish football and the ones who remain are just not good enough to assist a team to reach any European final. Is it a lower coaching standard or is it a lack of natural skillful players or probably a portion of both? And then we come to finance. It is well established that Scottish football is the poor man of TV and sponsorship deals compared to down south. Don't get me wrong, it isn't an excuse by me, simply a probable factor but I really cannot blame Sky or BT due the dross which is on show up here due to the deterioration of our game over the years.

Why has no team won the European Cup since Celtic's great win in Lisbon....basically because no team has been good enough, the ridiculous seedings which ensure the 'big' European teams have a far better chance of reaching the Champions League latter stages. I believe this is put down to coefficients which certainly doesn't assist Scottish teams but is a noose of our own making. I'm hazarding a guess with this as I really gave up on the Champions League years ago.

I don't know if this was what you were looking for Bilo but it's a summary of what is going through my head at the moment but no doubt Salty or that other fella may add more.
 

Gulliball

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#8
The answer is very simple – money. Football has changed dramatically in the last 50 years, and even the last 25 years.

Previously, Celtic could get a good crop of players and win a European tournament. If Slovakia had a good generation of footballers then Slovan Bratislava could win a European trophy. For example, they won the Cup Winner’s Cup in 1969, beating Barcelona in the final, and seven years later supplied 7 of the 11 players as Czechoslovakia won the 1976 Euros. Imagine that today, if 7 of the best players in Europe stayed in Slovakia for 7 years after winning a major trophy.

Look at the winners of these trophies and they are very diverse. In 1991 a Serbian team won the European Cup, then football became televised, the Premier League was launched and money ruled everything.

Aberdeen beat Real Madrid to win in Europe in 1983, then win the Super Cup a few months later. They had a good Scottish manager in Alex Ferguson, and good Scottish players. Today, anyone decent is gone by the age of 18. Ryan Fraser left for Bournemouth aged 18 when they were in League One. Fraser Fyvie was in the Aberdeen first team aged 16 and then gone to Wigan. The same for Jack Grimmer, who went to Fulham. None of those are bigger clubs than Aberdeen, but far, far richer. Whereas previously if you had 10 good Scottish/Slovak/Serbian, then the clubs in these countries could compete at the highest level.

Now, it doesn’t matter where the players are from, they’re at a big club by the age of 18. Best case scenario is that the national team does well, but even when Belgium has their golden generation right now, no Belgian club side will win in Europe – the talents were all sold off to richer sides whilst teens. The best players from around the world will play for the richest European sides by the age of 19, so it really doesn’t matter which country produces them.

English football looks down at Scotland because it has the money. If Celtic, with a worldwide fanbase and 60 000+ gates, also had £100m in TV money each year, they could be right up there with the best in England. Aberdeen, Hibs/Hearts, the Dundee sides etc are no worse than Hull, Huddersfield, Bournemouth or countless other English sides in terms of City size/stadium/fanbase/setup but they don’t get hundreds of millions a year.

The trickledown effect of the money in England is that sides in the Championship and League One have more money than the best of Scotland. The best players and managers now leave Scotland for the lower leagues in England, because there is more money there. That’s hard to take for clubs like Aberdeen, where any supporter over 40 has seen them beat Real Madrid and be the best in Europe – but now second division sides in England can buy and sell them. And in the future, it’s only going to get worse as the money in England filters down to the third level and below, whilst the BBC pays more to Gary Lineker to present the English highlights than it does to all 42 clubs in Scotland combined to show theirs.
 

St. Juste

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#9
It's been addressed elsewhere, but Scotland will never produce another CL winner. Neither will Romania, neither will the Netherlands.

It isn't because of anything we have done, money has been concentrated in the top 5 leagues of Europe.

Our proportional attendance figures are still amongst the finest in the world, and we have a far stronger domestic game than many far larger rivals due to our rich footballing tradition.

Things are pretty good on the whole.
 

Chris FGR

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Our proportional attendance figures are still amongst the finest in the world, and we have a far stronger domestic game than many far larger rivals due to our rich footballing tradition.
Not being funny, but other then Celtic the rest of the scottish teams struggle to beat teams from Luxembourg or Malta, so how can you say that your domestic game is "far stronger" then anyone's?

I actually hope Scottish football can rebuild, it's clearly a football-mad place but currently it's the worst it's ever been. The standard of the SPL is shocking. If people up there all bury their heads in the stand like you are, then you'll never start to fix the problems and you'll carry on declining.
 
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Our game is dreadful. No other word for it. No competition at the top end and a second tier which includes part-time team's.

Issues include...

Small nation of five million, many of which think cold chips = a salad.
Two sides dominate.
Allowed the mindset to take hold Scottish Football 'Is' said two sides.
Dreadful 'bowling club' mentality clowns running the game.
Two massive sides due to 'other' mitigating non-football factors.
David Murray investing in Rangers in 1988.
Massive league next door.
Thinking the OF game is up there with Barca v Real.

Plus much more.

Many issues outwith our control, many within.
 

Leo

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Our game is dreadful. No other word for it. No competition at the top end and a second tier which includes part-time team's.

Issues include...
David Murray investing in Rangers in 1988.

Many issues outwith our control, many within.
Not to mention Vladimir Romanov.....;)
 

St. Juste

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#14
Not being funny, but other then Celtic the rest of the scottish teams struggle to beat teams from Luxembourg or Malta, so how can you say that your domestic game is "far stronger" then anyone's?

I actually hope Scottish football can rebuild, it's clearly a football-mad place but currently it's the worst it's ever been. The standard of the SPL is shocking. If people up there all bury their heads in the stand like you are, then you'll never start to fix the problems and you'll carry on declining.
Because we don't struggle to beat teams from Luxembourg and Malta, and over the past decade Scottish teams, outwith Celtic, have beaten teams from far larger nations. 10 years ago Rangers reached the UEFA cup final. How many Maltese teams have achieved this?

Also, Scottish football is demonstrably not the worst it has ever been - and to neatly demonstrate this you don't even know what the league is called. Have you ever seen a game in your life?

By what metric have we been declining recently? Attendances? Nope. Performances in Europe? Nope.

Look at the facts - our proportional attendance record is outstanding, one of the very best in the world.

Our game is dreadful. No other word for it. No competition at the top end and a second tier which includes part-time team's.

Issues include...

Small nation of five million, many of which think cold chips = a salad.
Two sides dominate.
Allowed the mindset to take hold Scottish Football 'Is' said two sides.
Dreadful 'bowling club' mentality clowns running the game.
Two massive sides due to 'other' mitigating non-football factors.
David Murray investing in Rangers in 1988.
Massive league next door.
Thinking the OF game is up there with Barca v Real.

Plus much more.

Many issues outwith our control, many within.
The top end of our league is currently more competitive than the English Premier League. Our second tier has always included part timers.

The only valid point amongst those is the incompetence of those running the game. The rest? Have you just read about Scotland in a book or something? What nonsense.
 

Leo

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#15
The top end of our league is currently more competitive than the English Premier League.
Really ? Here are the current standings.....
Man City.......68 pts
Man Utd........53 pts
Liverpool.......50 pts
Chelsea........50 pts
Spurs............48 pts

Celtic.............60 pts
Aberdeen.......49 pts
Rangers.........46 pts
Hibs................41 pts
Hearts............34 pts

England.....20 pts between 1st & 5th at the moment & Scotland......26 pts between 1st & 5th at the moment. More competitive ? I think not unless you're looking at something other than the current points totals.
 

Chris FGR

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#16
Because we don't struggle to beat teams from Luxembourg and Malta,
Fair point, you don't struggle to beat them. You just lose to them instead....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40475647

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport...h-reports/hearts-1-birkirkara-2-three-8468411

I'm not trying to shit on Scottish football, like I said I actually hope you improve as it's a football mad country and the Scots are good banter when they're more competetive but you aren't going to improve if you stick your head in the sand over this. If a country with only 1/5 of your population (Cyprus) is able to have more competetive teams in Europe then you, then you know there is a problem.
 

St. Juste

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#17
Really ? Here are the current standings.....
Man City.......68 pts
Man Utd........53 pts
Liverpool.......50 pts
Chelsea........50 pts
Spurs............48 pts

Celtic.............60 pts
Aberdeen.......49 pts
Rangers.........46 pts
Hibs................41 pts
Hearts............34 pts

England.....20 pts between 1st & 5th at the moment & Scotland......26 pts between 1st & 5th at the moment. More competitive ? I think not unless you're looking at something other than the current points totals.
You think the "top" of a 12 team league is 5 teams? The top three are much more competitive (looking at points totals) than the top three in England.

Fair point, you don't struggle to beat them. You just lose to them instead....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40475647

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport...h-reports/hearts-1-birkirkara-2-three-8468411

I'm not trying to shit on Scottish football, like I said I actually hope you improve as it's a football mad country and the Scots are good banter when they're more competetive but you aren't going to improve if you stick your head in the sand over this. If a country with only 1/5 of your population (Cyprus) is able to have more competetive teams in Europe then you, then you know there is a problem.
Oh right, you should have said at the start your entire point was based on two games. Celtic beat Barcelona a few years ago, we must be better than them. Never mind the time Aberdeen drew with Bayern Munich in 2008.

Our coefficient has changed a bit over the past 10 years but is pretty much around where you would expect a nation of our size to be (after flying high for some time). If we were doing terribly, this would be clear from the coefficient, we would be lowest of our peers in the 5 million bracket, and better than no larger nations. This is clearly, demonstrably, not the case. Therefore we can't be considered terrible in the context of our comparison to our European colleagues. Over however long you want to look at it - 5 years, 10 years, 20 years Scottish football does incredibly well.

Doesn't Cyprus has one good team based on some guys money? Or do you really think the Cypriot league is better than the SPFL?

Smaller nations will occassionally do better than us (as well as other larger nations) for a variety of reasons. Tearing your hair out about it would be madness. Look at how we perform, relative to our peers, in whichever time period you like, and we do very well.

Anything else is just a distortion of the available facts.
 

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#18
You think the "top" of a 12 team league is 5 teams? The top three are much more competitive (looking at points totals) than the top three in England.
You really should think before you post your nonsense. I took the top five from each league for a numeric & comparative view. However there is, at this point in time, only 4 points of a difference between 1st & 3rd in England and 1st and 3rd in Scotland ffs. And you think for THAT particular reason Scotland's PL is more competitive than England's. Away you and gies peace.....:lol:
 

Leo

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#19
Not being funny, but other then Celtic the rest of the scottish teams struggle to beat teams from Luxembourg or Malta, so how can you say that your domestic game is "far stronger" then anyone's?

I actually hope Scottish football can rebuild, it's clearly a football-mad place but currently it's the worst it's ever been. The standard of the SPL is shocking. If people up there all bury their heads in the stand like you are, then you'll never start to fix the problems and you'll carry on declining.
Chris, you are pissing against the wind trying to reason with that ostrich mate.
 

St. Juste

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#20
You really should think before you post your nonsense. I took the top five from each league for a numeric & comparative view. However there is, at this point in time, only 4 points of a difference between 1st & 3rd in England and 1st and 3rd in Scotland ffs. And you think for THAT particular reason Scotland's PL is more competitive than England's. Away you and gies peace.....:lol:
You took 5 because 5 is the only amount that would make your point valid. 4 doesn't, 3 directly contradicts it.

And, obviously, the top of the SPFL can't be almost half the teams in it.

And yes, of course, because the facts demonstrate it, that is why I think the top of the SPFL is more competitive than the top of the EPL. Because the facts state it.

For you to question this, your assertion is that the 'top' of the SPFL is 5 teams (out of 12). Which is patently nonsense. Particularly because the team in 5th is far away from 4th.
 

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#21
You took 5 because 5 is the only amount that would make your point valid. 4 doesn't, 3 directly contradicts it.

And, obviously, the top of the SPFL can't be almost half the teams in it.

And yes, of course, because the facts demonstrate it, that is why I think the top of the SPFL is more competitive than the top of the EPL. Because the facts state it.

For you to question this, your assertion is that the 'top' of the SPFL is 5 teams (out of 12). Which is patently nonsense. Particularly because the team in 5th is far away from 4th.
You have serious problems justy lad, you really do. The post you quoted there actually showed the difference between the top three in either league is only 4 points which does NOT make the Scottish PL more competitive than the EPL.

Oh & btw, I DIDN'T take five for the reason you driveled, I took it simply because it was...well an equal number. Obviously doesn't suit your warped way of thinking. But hey, why let simplicity get in the way of your muddled thoughts & vanity. Four points difference makes it more competitive up here than down south ? Only on planet justy.....:lol:
 
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#22
The top end of our league is currently more competitive than the English Premier League. Our second tier has always included part timers.

The only valid point amongst those is the incompetence of those running the game. The rest? Have you just read about Scotland in a book or something? What nonsense.
Okay mate, it's wonderful. That's why Scotland haven't qualified for a major competition in 20 year's or that we've not had a different league winner outside the OF since 1985.

:eek:bama:
 

St. Juste

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#23
You have serious problems justy lad, you really do. The post you quoted there actually showed the difference between the top three in either league is only 4 points which does NOT make the Scottish PL more competitive than the EPL.

Oh & btw, I DIDN'T take five for the reason you driveled, I took it simply because it was...well an equal number. Obviously doesn't suit your warped way of thinking. But hey, why let simplicity get in the way of your muddled thoughts & vanity. Four points difference makes it more competitive up here than down south ? Only on planet justy.....:lol:
Right, so a difference of 4 points doesn't make it more competitive. So what does? A difference of 5 points? 6 points? Be specific.

Sorry, this is more incredible thing of all, what on earth makes 5 an equal number?!?

Okay mate, it's wonderful. That's why Scotland haven't qualified for a major competition in 20 year's or that we've not had a different league winner outside the OF since 1985.

:eek:bama:
Not qualifying for a major tournament makes no comment on the standard of the league and neither does how many teams who win it.

If you look around, nearly every footballing nation on earth has a small number of teams winning the league. It doesn't mean anything.

If your view, if things are so utterly terrible, why are our attendances so incredibly good? Why are we doing relatively well in Europe? There was plenty of nations with far more than 5 million people and no team in the CL group stages. In said group stages Celtic finished above the Champions of a nation more than twice our size.
 
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#24
Not qualifying for a major tournament makes no comment on the standard of the league and neither does how many teams who win it.
What does it say then?

If you look around, nearly every footballing nation on earth has a small number of teams winning the league. It doesn't mean anything.
Of these leagues, how many have had two or less different league winners since 1985?

If your view, if things are so utterly terrible, why are our attendances so incredibly good? Why are we doing relatively well in Europe? There was plenty of nations with far more than 5 million people and no team in the CL group stages. In said group stages Celtic finished above the Champions of a nation more than twice our size.
Attendances don't mean shit. Five folk watch AS Monaco and they got to the ECL semi-final last year,
we've also had teams lose to sides from Gibraltar, Luxembourg and Malta. Your last two points concern Celtic only. They won't be winning the CL and you can take that to the bank. Champions League money for them makes our league more unfair, more uncompetitive and more unbalanced. As I said, the duopoly (Now really one) has damaged Scottish Football for decades, as a St Mirren fan how do you not see that?

Been watching Hearts since the early 90's, man and boy, our league and game is a backwater.
 

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#25
Right, so a difference of 4 points doesn't make it more competitive. So what does? A difference of 5 points? 6 points? Be specific.

Sorry, this is more incredible thing of all, what on earth makes 5 an equal number?!?
You really are a fool but you obviously have no qualms about making this known. I don't require to be specific here as I have made my case, it wasn't difficult to work that out but as per usual with you, fucking mountains emerge from Moley's residence. In case it has slipped your muddled memory t'was yourself who emphasised that the Scottish Premiership was more competitive than the EPL. I pointed out that between the top three in each league there is only a difference of four points at the moment. You for some reason known to only yourself & perhaps the odd tumble drier seem to think that four points make up here more competitive. Only a someone with a futile grip on sanity would come to that conclusion. A wee lie down in a dark room could assist your well being but tbh I really doubt it. You are beyond help!

As for the idiotic comment about '5'. Let me explain....5 from one league and 5 from another league makes it an 'equal' number of teams from each league. There ye go....wasn't difficult was it. Your attempts at trying to make me appear foolish are quite pathetic justy....you'll have to try a damn site harder than that......:lol:...just showing yourself up.
 

St. Juste

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#26
What does it say then?

Of these leagues, how many have had two or less different league winners since 1985?

Attendances don't mean shit. Five folk watch AS Monaco and they got to the ECL semi-final last year,
we've also had teams lose to sides from Gibraltar, Luxembourg and Malta. Your last two points concern Celtic only. They won't be winning the CL and you can take that to the bank. Champions League money for them makes our league more unfair, more uncompetitive and more unbalanced. As I said, the duopoly (Now really one) has damaged Scottish Football for decades, as a St Mirren fan how do you not see that?

Been watching Hearts since the early 90's, man and boy, our league and game is a backwater.
It doesn’t really say anything, Scotland will regularly qualify for a 24 team Euros. The fact a small number of clubs typically wins our league makes us like every almost every other top tier professional league on earth.

I have no idea, check for yourself.

The Monaco example demonstrates, what? If Scotland was a tiny principality that didn’t pay tax, and was a haven for millionaires / billionaires, we might be able to have a good team with low attendances? Uh, great. For most of their existence Monaco haven’t been that good, and only do well when they get a big financial backer. Recently they have done very well in youth development but overall, they don’t really tell us anything other than not paying tax on your salaries is a bit of a competitive advantage.

The team that lost to a side from Gibraltar hammered them in the second leg and comfortably progressed.

Regarding the duopoly, here is where your credibility comes into question. You are complaining there is a power imbalance as if it is a recent thing. It isn’t. If it truly bothered you, you would never have become a fan of Scottish football. As indeed, does your 'criticism' that our second tier has some semi professional teams - surely you must have known this has always been the case? There is an amateur team in the SPFL too (also not a recent change). The top of the league isn’t particularly competitive but so what? The rest of the league is very competitive with all teams more than capable of beating each other. The difference between, say, Spurs versus Brighton is far more than the difference between Hibs and Partick Thistle. Will St. Mirren ever win the SPFL? Almost certainly not, if this is a reality you are unwilling to accept, go and ‘support’ Man Utd.

There are plenty of Scottish football fans who complain incessantly about the league, it is a uniquely Scottish thing to hate your own hobbies. Simple answer? Stop going, watch the EPL on television if you prefer. Scottish football has more than enough fans to not miss people who hate themselves, their club and what they are watching (there are loads at St. Mirren too). It’s fascinating from a psychological perspective; some people just go to games to complain.In your case you've taken it a step further and gone onto an online forum to complain about the standard of football - an embodiment of the Trainspotting speech.

As for us being a backwater, relative to England? Maybe. Relative to Hungary, Finland? Quite the opposite. Many far larger nations in Europe are doing worse than us.

You really are a fool but you obviously have no qualms about making this known. I don't require to be specific here as I have made my case, it wasn't difficult to work that out but as per usual with you, fucking mountains emerge from Moley's residence. In case it has slipped your muddled memory t'was yourself who emphasised that the Scottish Premiership was more competitive than the EPL. I pointed out that between the top three in each league there is only a difference of four points at the moment. You for some reason known to only yourself & perhaps the odd tumble drier seem to think that four points make up here more competitive. Only a someone with a futile grip on sanity would come to that conclusion. A wee lie down in a dark room could assist your well being but tbh I really doubt it. You are beyond help!

As for the idiotic comment about '5'. Let me explain....5 from one league and 5 from another league makes it an 'equal' number of teams from each league. There ye go....wasn't difficult was it. Your attempts at trying to make me appear foolish are quite pathetic justy....you'll have to try a damn site harder than that......:lol:...just showing yourself up.
Yes, a shorter distribution of points at the top of the table obviously makes it more competitive. What on else earth would make it more competitive if not that?

Nevertheless, given you don’t know the difference between odd and even numbers I don’t think you will understand the concept of distribution either.

The explanation that you selected 5 because 5 from one league and 5 from another is ‘equal’ is truly astonishing. This is like explaining calculus to a dog. I just don’t think I’m capable of conversing at your level, and I think any post I make will go well above your head.
 
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#27
It doesn’t really say anything, Scotland will regularly qualify for a 24 team Euros. The fact a small number of clubs typically wins our league makes us like every almost every other top tier professional league on earth.
It tells you Scottish Football overall is rubbish and our league is a laughing stock. Unless not qualifying for competitions, no player's of note and one of the world's most uncompetitive leagues is a triumph, as you hysterically see it.

I have no idea, check for yourself.
I can't find any. Many leagues do have a handful of clubs who win it, but not just two for over thirty years. Could you explain to me why this is good for our game please?

The Monaco example demonstrates, what? If Scotland was a tiny principality that didn’t pay tax, and was a haven for millionaires / billionaires, we might be able to have a good team with low attendances? Uh, great. For most of their existence Monaco haven’t been that good, and only do well when they get a big financial backer. Recently they have done very well in youth development but overall, they don’t really tell us anything other than not paying tax on your salaries is a bit of a competitive advantage.
It demonstrates attendances don't mean shit, something you were gushing over. Glad you agree.

The team that lost to a side from Gibraltar hammered them in the second leg and comfortably progressed.
Whoopee!

Regarding the duopoly, here is where your credibility comes into question. You are complaining there is a power imbalance as if it is a recent thing. It isn’t. If it truly bothered you, you would never have become a fan of Scottish football. As indeed, does your 'criticism' that our second tier has some semi professional teams - surely you must have known this has always been the case? There is an amateur team in the SPFL too (also not a recent change). The top of the league isn’t particularly competitive but so what? The rest of the league is very competitive with all teams more than capable of beating each other. The difference between, say, Spurs versus Brighton is far more than the difference between Hibs and Partick Thistle. Will St. Mirren ever win the SPFL? Almost certainly not, if this is a reality you are unwilling to accept, go and ‘support’ Man Utd.
I'm supposed to know all that when my Dad was lifting me over the turnstyles when I was six year's old?

:ffs:

:fl:

There are plenty of Scottish football fans who complain incessantly about the league, it is a uniquely Scottish thing to hate your own hobbies. Simple answer? Stop going, watch the EPL on television if you prefer. Scottish football has more than enough fans to not miss people who hate themselves, their club and what they are watching (there are loads at St. Mirren too). It’s fascinating from a psychological perspective; some people just go to games to complain.In your case you've taken it a step further and gone onto an online forum to complain about the standard of football - an embodiment of the Trainspotting speech.
^^^^^Cyber-Nat detected^^^^^

Get over it mate, you lost.

:hesk:

P.S I haven't set foot in Tynecastle since 2014. Largely couldn't give a toss about Scottish Football.
P.P.S How many St Mirren games do you manage from Brazil?

As for us being a backwater, relative to England? Maybe. Relative to Hungary, Finland? Quite the opposite. Many far larger nations in Europe are doing worse than us.
It's a backwater kid, couldn't give a fuck about Finland an that. Sorry.
 

Leo

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#28
Yes, a shorter distribution of points at the top of the table obviously makes it more competitive. What on else earth would make it more competitive if not that?

Nevertheless, given you don’t know the difference between odd and even numbers I don’t think you will understand the concept of distribution either.

The explanation that you selected 5 because 5 from one league and 5 from another is ‘equal’ is truly astonishing. This is like explaining calculus to a dog. I just don’t think I’m capable of conversing at your level, and I think any post I make will go well above your head.
You do realise that 4 points is no more than one win and a draw from parity....you can grasp that can you, and that makes the situation more competitive ?......:lol:..... You are really are more idiotic than I actually had realised and as confused as a blind lesbian at a fish market. Again you fail to grasp the simplicity of the fact that if you use one number from one league and the same number from another league that makes THAT number an equal from both leagues? Only a complete simpleton would be stumped with that.

You are probably correct that you are unable to converse at my level for the simple reason that you stupidly attempt to put yourself over as an intellectual but unfortunately simply come across as an arse. If you even think for one minute that nobody on here can see straight through your foolish self thought importance and egotism then you really do have delusions of adequacy.

Any post you make will go over my head ? Only if you face your arse in an upwards direction justy boy....that's the only way son.
 

St. Juste

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#29
It tells you Scottish Football overall is rubbish and our league is a laughing stock. Unless not qualifying for competitions, no player's of note and one of the world's most uncompetitive leagues is a triumph, as you hysterically see it.

I can't find any. Many leagues do have a handful of clubs who win it, but not just two for over thirty years. Could you explain to me why this is good for our game please?

It demonstrates attendances don't mean shit, something you were gushing over. Glad you agree.

Whoopee!

I'm supposed to know all that when my Dad was lifting me over the turnstyles when I was six year's old?


^^^^^Cyber-Nat detected^^^^^

Get over it mate, you lost.

:hesk:

P.S I haven't set foot in Tynecastle since 2014. Largely couldn't give a toss about Scottish Football.
P.P.S How many St Mirren games do you manage from Brazil?

It's a backwater kid, couldn't give a fuck about Finland an that. Sorry.
The bit in bold says it all - you don't know anything about it, you're not interested, maybe you should stop commenting on it?

You don't give a toss, however, Scottish football is incredibly popular in Scotland. Which is why we have outstanding proportional attendance figures. Stick to watching Man Utd on TV.
 
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#30
The bit in bold says it all - you don't know anything about it, you're not interested, maybe you should stop commenting on it?

You don't give a toss, however, Scottish football is incredibly popular in Scotland. Which is why we have outstanding proportional attendance figures. Stick to watching Man Utd on TV.
Points evaded. Questions unanswered. Chalk that up as a solid win for the boy Steamed Hams.

As you were.

 

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