Hi-Fi Corner - Vinyl, CD, Cassettes and the rest

[Habbinalan]

I've never heard of Mantle-Piece before so I'll check 'em out later because right now I'm listening to Chris Whitley's fantastic second album(RIP). Great talent but taken sadly taken too soon. But I checked out M-P's album on Discogs. I say Alan!

It goes on - I've just pulled out my old Van der Graaf Generator and Roy Harper Albums for the evening and couldn't resist checking them on Discogs. Phew!!

I'd forgotten how many Dylan, Hendrix, Doors, Stones and Beatles albums I had stashed away. Only regretting the many Cream, Stones, King Crimson and (musically poor but now rare) Hendrix ones that I let go. I've since got most of the on CD but if I still had the vinyl...........

I'm going to have to get some better storage and certainly stop stacking a lot of them on open shelves.

p.s. Mantle Piece is the Album. The Battered Ornaments was a band formed by Pete Brown. However (with thanks to Wiki for the precis):

".....Brown formed Pete Brown and His Battered Ornaments in 1968,[1] and in 1969 the band recorded two albums; A Meal You Can Shake Hands With in the Dark and Mantlepiece, with a line-up including Pete Bailey (percussion), Charlie Hart (keyboards), Dick Heckstall-Smith (sax), George Kahn (sax), Roger Potter (bass), Chris Spedding (guitar) and Rob Tait (drums). Brown then suffered the ignominy of being thrown out of his own band, the day before they were due to support The Rolling Stones at Hyde Park.[2] His vocals were then removed from Mantlepiece and re-recorded by Chris Spedding, and the band was renamed The Battered Ornaments.[4]"

My album only acknowledges Pete Brown for his song writing and as "engineer." The lyrics are the re-recorded Chris Spedding version.

If only I had one of the original Pete Brown and his Battered Ornaments, a few of which apparently do exist out there.

 

[Vanni]

I've got loads of Hendrix, VDGG, Genesis, Dylan et al but the majority were bought from car boot sales so the sleeves aren't in a great shape, and the sleeve is more important to collectors, as it's harder to find an NM sleeve than an NM record obviously. I've got loads of records in NM or virtually unplayed condition but the sleeve would be VG+ at best.

Thanks for the clarification on Mantle-Piece. Didn't get to check it tonight, but I'll listen to a couple of tracks tomorrow, as I spent a couple of hours cleaning a few records including some 5 Roxy Music albums but 'For Your Pleasure' is definitely beyond help, as it's far too noisy all the way through. Not exactly a big deal as I've got their albums on CD too. Don't know why but I'm liking Roxy more as the years go by. Age-related I guess

 

[Habbinalan]

I've got loads of Hendrix, VDGG, Genesis, Dylan et al

My copy of Pawn Hearts came from a swap for Trepass when I visited a mate in Leeds - I think for Jethro Tull, Thick as a Brick, at the uni. We went record shopping and played them when we got back to his digs. He was very disappointed with VDGG, whilst I found my Genesis buy a bit on the pretentious side (whereas Pete Hammill never gave that impression did he? ) so we swapped. I think I picked up some Elvis Costello and Graham Parker & the Rumour on that trip - both have lasted the test of time better but you can't beat a bit of up their own arse student prog rock to bring back the good old days now and then.

Don't know why but I'm liking Roxy more as the years go by. Age-related I guess

Got the first album as soon as it came out and still play it occasionally. Saw them at Reading Town Hall. My girlfriend at the time became a rabid Brian Ferry fan, which coloured my views on Roxy and her - I never fitted the lounge lizard personna. My interest faded (in both) as Ferry came more to the fore and I wandered off down a Brian Eno route - although I still have Siren, little played in recent years.

 

[Vanni]

Alan, any updates on your recent purchases? Are you enjoying your KEFS, and what about the new cartridge? I'm assuming it's a noticeable upgrade on the Elys.

ps - apologies but I haven't yet grasped how to quote a member's name directly. Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[Habbinalan]

Sorting some music in prep for a mate coming down for a late New Year's celebration. He used to come down over NY and invariably jinx U's performances, especially at the Abbey, but more recently he's banned from the Abbey by me and/or we've been travelling.

Anyway, this then took me to the Music Venue to offer some revived vinyl inspired choices for some of the threads.

The new cartridge and the KEFs have bedded in beautifully. I was playing some newly cleaned Hendrix last night (Are You Experienced and Axis Bold as Love) and I don't think I've heard them sounding so good and sharp ever.

One downside to this upgrade and hearing vinyl is that it highlights what's missing on my other system (compact HiFi) and some of the CDs, never mind the YouTube offerings that we put up to share our tastes and inspire others. I was considering offering some Kevin Coyne and some Help Yourself (with Deke Leonard & BJ Cole) but it's so flat compared to the vinyl. Anyway....

To grab attention, stick an "@" in front of the member's name Vanni

 

[Vanni]

Habbinalan Did it work? Cheers for the tip.

So the Rega is sounding better than cd player then? Not surprised at all as I've had my fair share of cd players (some entry level and others a bit more on the expensive side) but have given up with upgrading. Not saying I'm not satisfied, as putting on a cd for some background music is more than acceptable to me, but there's quite an audible difference between analog and digital, and I think I'll only be wasting my money if I get myself a high end cd player.

Was the claim about the Exact better at handling surface noise true or not?

 

[Habbinalan]

It worked.

I sort of knew that anologue beats digital for most (not all) of the music that hits the spot for me, so I agree that upgrade is not the answer.

There was a long period (mainly work driven) when I listened to new music on CD in the car more often than sitting down at home. That was after I got fed up with cars not offering a cassette player - I still remember fitting one to my black Metro. There are still a bunch of CDs that have found their niche as road music for away matches. Luckily my occasional travelling companions share (most of) my taste in music.

Most of the music I've got into since the days of Clash, Specials, British Reggae and Orange Juice was on CD. There are some albums that I might seek out on vinyl as I have only one Rory Gallagher, one Neil Young and very few blues or jazz albums on vinyl but the full catologue of Rory and NY on CD and loads of blues and jazz CDs.

The clean up has worked so well that records I thought I'd never be able to tolerate listening to are beyond brilliant, so I can't comment on relative performance on surface noise at the moment. I might be able to check it some time. At the moment, this thread has simply thrown the shackles of a massive LP collection that was mouldering in a corner. I'm currently seeing if I can get through all 4 sides of Trout Mask Replica - I bought it second hand in the 70's and it has never sounded better.

 

[Vanni]

Habbinalan
'I sort of knew that anologue beats digital for most (not all) of the music that hits the spot for me' Spot on Alan. I don't imagine there being such an audible difference when listening to certain music genres, but there certainly is with the music you and I listen to. BTW, when I said I thought about getting a high end CD/digital player, I was referring to those TOTL offerings from major brands like Yamaha and not those really expensive players with price tags of 3k or more. IOW, 'high end' wasn't exactly what I meant to say.

Like you and probably 99% of all music lovers, I also purchased a lot of new music on cd back in the day, but I don't think it was all our doing. The record industry did their best to phase out vinyl and were continually bombarding us with their 'perfect sound forever' catchphrase. I also believe they released substandard vinyl releases on purpose to help us make up our minds. What was most definitely not my fault was when an album I wanted to get wasn't even released on vinyl, but only on tape and cd.

Just finished cleaning up this Affinty LP. Quite decent in parts, but that Hammond Organ is getting on my nerves

 

[eightiesrobin]

Vanni -

About four years ago I actually found that Affinity LP in a charity shop. I didn't know what it was, except that it was probably sought-after, being on Vertigo and all. It was £25, in a shop (not Oxfam, as you might expect) which had a strange pricing system, so I didn't buy it. I went back a couple of days later, it was well gone. Regrets....

 

[Vanni]

I didn't know anything about it either, but the cover art and the Vertigo label screamed 'sought after' at me. And I got it for only 2 or 3 quid iirc, a great deal, but it was from a car boot seller who generally don't much about record valuations unlike the various charity shops around who have all discovered Discogs.

Speaking of Vertigo, I have two copies of Autobahn, one in a solid NM state and the other more like Ex-/VG+, so I stored the NM one in an outer PVC sleeve and now it's totally ruined, playing with a lot of background noise similar to tape hiss. It's also developed some kind of misting, and it's all down to the PVC sleeve. What's even worse is that the lp's that were stacked next to the Kraftwerk lp's have also developed this misting, albeit less severe. I had heard before not to store vinyl in PVC sleeves as it's impossible to tell whether the PVC sleeves in question are the safe kind or not, but I simply dismissed it as more audiophile paranoia A quick google search throws up several other examples of this pvc phenomenon. A couple of examples below -

http://recordcollectormag.com/letters/ruined-vinyl-the-sequels

http://imgur.com/a/TEpBw

So throw away those PVC outer sleeves even though they may look better than those common flimsy plastic ones. It doesn't really matter if the record is or isn't in direct contact with the PVC sleeve, like in the second link, although those in direct contact will be ruined more faster obviously.

 

[eightiesrobin]

http://www.popsike.com/php/quicksearch.php?searchtext=affinity+affinity&x=0&y=0

 

[eightiesrobin]

Get it out of the PVC sleeve Vanni!

 

[Vanni]

Get it out of the PVC sleeve Vanni!

Haha! But seriously though, were you aware of this thing?

oh shit, I've just discovered another one - Cohen's New Skin But hold on, it doesn't sound noisy at all even though it looks heavily misted. Won't be too bothered if plays fine all the way through.


btw, that Affinity lp might come in handy as I think my Om20's stylus needs to be replaced soon.

 

[eightiesrobin]

No, I hadn't heard of it Vanni. I've had odd LPs that have "bag rash" where they've obviously been stuck to polythene inner sleeves for years (when you have to peel them off the record), but never anything else. It seems a bit odd that a record, inside an inner sleeve, inside a cardboard sleeve, can be damaged like this

 

[Vanni]

eightiesrobin that's what I thought too, but believe me it's true. My copy of Autobahn was stored in a poly lined inner sleeve inside the outer sleeve, so all I was doing was 'protecting' the outer sleeve. Stacked next to Autobahn were two other Kraftwerk lp's, and both have developed this misting thing too. The Man Machine sounds as bad as it looks, but otoh Computer World is still sounding fine even though it's heavily misted.

Re. Cohen's New Skin, I spoke too soon last night as side 1 plays fine but side 2 has developed some hiss. The other Cohen lps stacked up next to it look fine with no misting at all. So the info I googled up looks correct as 1)not all pvc sleeves damage vinyl, but it's impossible to visually tell which ones are the good kind 2)the bad sleeves are not made from the same material as some of them damage vinyl instantly 3)a record will still be damaged when stored in one of the bad pvc sleeves, irrespective of the thickness of the outer cardboard sleeve and inner sleeve.

Worst culprits are those RSD releases in clear PVC sleeves, like the one in the pic I linked to in my previous post. Luckily I only have 3 such examples but all 3 are now ruined, one of which is a 3 track split 12'' ep that I had to fork out 25 quid for, so I'm not exactly in a good mood right now

 

[eightiesrobin]

Very odd.

 

[eightiesrobin]

I scored some grunge / metal LPs today in Age UK, for £2.99 each. All in super clean condition, in the bad PVC sleeves. Who donates this stuff?

Pearl Jam - Ten
Alice In Chains - Facelift and Dirt
Faith No More - We Care A Lot and Introduce Yourself
Nine Inch Nails - Pretty Hate Machine
Soundgarden - Louder Than Love

 

[Vanni]

I scored some grunge / metal LPs today in Age UK, for £2.99 each. All in super clean condition, in the bad PVC sleeves. Who donates this stuff?

Pearl Jam - Ten
Alice In Chains - Facelift and Dirt
Faith No More - We Care A Lot and Introduce Yourself
Nine Inch Nails - Pretty Hate Machine
Soundgarden - Louder Than Love

And how do you know that the PVC sleeves are the bad kind?

 

[eightiesrobin]

I don't really, but they are PVC with crimped edges

 

[Vanni]

I've been doing a bit of reading on this thing, and from I could gather there's no way to tell except by looking at the record/s to see if they developed 'misting' or not, if they're not then the pvc is the good kind so to speak so it's safe to continue using those outer sleeves. As far as I can tell, the bad ones will ruin a record instantly, and people have reported misting after only 4 weeks of keeping a record inside one of these. Some people also think that this is the reason a lot of picture discs get noisier with time.

The most affected one I have is the one that I mentioned above. I got it as soon as it was issued back in 2008, and it was already noisy back then. I remember at the time those who had bought the 12'' moaning on FB that it was a rushed release and that the two bands (TAAS and Russian Circles) didn't even bother to master the tracks, something both bands denied. Now we all know the PVC sleeve was to blame.

Like I said earlier, I had to pay 25 quid for my copy as it sold out pretty quickly* (didn't know that it was going to get reissued only some 6 months later on clear vinyl), but the problem is that all the copies were affected so it would be futile trying to get another copy.

*mostly by the fervent Russian Circles fans . I so hate split releases, especially when one of the bands is much bigger than the other.

 

[eightiesrobin]

Maybe the PVC sleeves were OK on these LPs then. I moved them out anyway, although if they've survived since 1990 or thereabouts, they should be OK.

 

[Vanni]

Anyways, some good stuff you found there 80's. I think you can make a tidy profit if they're in good shape.

I got some new stuff too, mostly through friends. I got another two Camel Lp's, Snow Goose and Rain Dances, Pink Floyd's Obscured by Clouds (in better shape than the one I have), Rickie Lee Jones's debut, a couple of new wave compilations and a Roxy Music's greatest hits. Some 90's indie singles too, the likes of The Charlatans, The Wonderstuff, Mock Turtles, Stone Roses, Curve and so on.

 

[Habbinalan]

I've been new car shopping today..........and once again am being dragged (kicking and screaming) into accepting and adapting to new technology. Not only are all my options going to thrust a sat. nav. on me but none of them have a f***ing CD Player.


Having happily settled back into "turning the record over" (and getting a refill) as part of my home HiFi routine, am I really now going to have progressively stick my music collection onto my pay-as-you-go Samsung Android phone (which has internet and WiFi switched off and gets more use as an FM radio for the U's commentaries than it does as a phone, never mind anything else.) or some other media option?

Thank god my steam-driven Evesham PC is still functioning and (probably, at least last time I looked) networked - it's the only thing with a CD drive in the house at the moment.

If anyone has developed a routine for getting their CDs (and vinyl?) onto bluetooth accessible media or can recommend kit, I'd appreciate a steer.

 

[Vanni]

Sorry but can't help Alan, as I still have a cd player in mine. As you can probably tell, I see cars as only something which gets you from a to b, so getting a new motor is way down on my list of priorities.

If you don't get any tips from the tech savvy members on here, I think you'd better sign up to some forum and ask over there. Haven't got the foggiest on which one'll be the most helpful for this kind of thing though. Speaking of forums, I had to sign up again to Vinyl Engine and Audio Karma as I couldn't remember my passwords, and was planning to ask if going from the OM20 to the OM30 is a worthwhile upgrade. But then I remembered that people are seldom truthful when it comes to upgrades and tend to go overboard with the ''improvement'' they got from upgrading. So I changed my mind and didn't even bother to ask

 

[Vanni]

Man likes to over complicate things I think. See how ridiculously easy it is to listen to your favourite records. No need to worry whether the amp you've just bought is a good match for your speakers, if your turntable tonearm can handle that £250 cart you've set your eyes on, and so on. And your other half will stop nagging you about all those audio cables lying around on the floor

 

[eightiesrobin]

I dunno, I can't see the point. I'm old though, I don't think I'm supposed to.

 

[Habbinalan]

No bargains (I think) but some pleasing additions to the collection. Always love a bit of Dave Edmunds or Nick Lowe and I never did own a Move LP in the old days - although had a couple of 45's (I think).

 

[Vanni]

Bump! Some recent inexpensive acquisitions -

1.Santana's 3rd
2. Santana's Best of comp, the one with the dove(?) on the sleeve. I had another Santana comp but the track selection isn't the same bar a couple of tracks so I got it.
3. Strawberry Alarm Clock - Incense and Peppermints. This one was a trade with a guy who wanted a couple of Deep Purple records I had. Dunno what to think, the first track's alright but then it gets repetitive. I'll give it more time.
4. Fleetwood Mac - Double comp of their blues stuff, 'The Vintage Years'. Quite good I reckon.
5. Another Mac Lp, Bare Trees. Sleeve and record looked NM/virtually unplayed but there's this tiny scratch which is so hard to see without magnification and strong lighting that's causing the stylus to stick on one track. I believe this type of scratch is known as 'tramline scratch', a scratch in the direction of the groove not across it. Anyways, no big deal, it was only 1.99.
6 & 7 Two Telly Savalas lp's Should be great for entertaining guests!
8. 999's Separates, a record I had already but this one's in a much better shape.

BTW, got myself another OM20 stylus. Couldn't decide whether I should stick with the 20 or upgrade to the 30, but then I thought to myself why did I have to upgrade when I was more than satisfied with the 20. Plus, a google search on the jump from the 20 to the 30 didn't get me anywhere except reminding me of the main reason why I try to stay away from audiophile forums.

 

[Habbinalan]

Bump! Some recent inexpensive acquisitions -

1.Santana's 3rd
2. Santana's Best of comp, the one with the dove(?) on the sleeve. I had another Santana comp but the track selection isn't the same bar a couple of tracks so I got it.
3. Strawberry Alarm Clock - Incense and Peppermints. This one was a trade with a guy who wanted a couple of Deep Purple records I had. Dunno what to think, the first track's alright but then it gets repetitive. I'll give it more time.
4. Fleetwood Mac - Double comp of their blues stuff, 'The Vintage Years'. Quite good I reckon.
5. Another Mac Lp, Bare Trees. Sleeve and record looked NM/virtually unplayed but there's this tiny scratch which is so hard to see without magnification and strong lighting that's causing the stylus to stick on one track. I believe this type of scratch is known as 'tramline scratch', a scratch in the direction of the groove not across it. Anyways, no big deal, it was only 1.99.
6 & 7 Two Telly Savalas lp's Should be great for entertaining guests!
8. 999's Separates, a record I had already but this one's in a much better shape.

BTW, got myself another OM20 stylus. Couldn't decide whether I should stick with the 20 or upgrade to the 30, but then I thought to myself why did I have to upgrade when I was more than satisfied with the 20. Plus, a google search on the jump from the 20 to the 30 didn't get me anywhere except reminding me of the main reason why I try to stay away from audiophile forums.

I seriously considered, on many occasions, scratching directly across "Thoughts on a Grey Day" on Bare Trees (Why I have it, I can't remember, I've hated Fleetwood Mac post Peter Green but I seem to have bought it new(ish)). It's the last track, so shouldn't be necessary, but that track is so much worse than the repeated click of a finished record that I have to leap out of my chair to stop it. I have the same problem with "Mother Earth" on Ragged Glory but that's a CD so a different technical problem.

Once I get my music on a "Digital Music Player" all these irritations will go away. What a horrible thought.

My surviving Santana original purchases are Abraxas and Welcome. I think I had Caravanserai at one time.

 

[Habbinalan]

I've parked the hassle of getting my music in the new car and been enjoying the novelty of BBC6, Absoloute Radio and TalkSport because it has DAB Radio. The SatNav Lady and me have regularly agreed to differ and I'm beginning to enjoy the increasingly resigned tone in her voice as she says "Recalculating your route."