National League Fixtures - 12/3/2019

RLC

Active Member
Messages
919
Likes
208
Location
Birkenhead
Supports
Tranmere Rovers
Yes, there is a big gulf between League Two and the Conference. Of our promotion winning squad, only three are still first team regulars (Davies, Norwood and Jennings). Most of the rest were not really up to it.

The mid-table Crewe and Grimsby sides we have just beaten are better than the Wrexham and Orient teams I watched on Saturday.

I have always wanted Orient to go up this season, plus (grudgingly) Wrexham.
 
Messages
695
Likes
317
Location
Birkenhead
Supports
Tranmere Rovers
Wrexham can rot in hell... though considering the state of the place, they essentially already do. I'm kidding, but it's a rivalry and you don't want your rivals to succeed. Keep them a league below, and maintain a superior attitude...

I've held a grudge against Orient since the game in 2013 that effectively relegated us from league one, the Orient fans that day were right cocky so and so's. I've still got my seat from that game, some scroat behind me kicked it out at full time, so being from Merseyside and all that, I copped a souvenir. But rather them than Wrexham!
 

Boz

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,723
Likes
212
Location
Huddersfield
Supports
Tranmere Rovers
Yes, there is a big gulf between League Two and the Conference. Of our promotion winning squad, only three are still first team regulars (Davies, Norwood and Jennings). Most of the rest were not really up to it.
.
Cook, Norburn, Ginnelly and Clarke of our promotion squad are all with clubs at a higher level, while Ritchie Sutton is a regular starter at Morecambe. If we’d had to stick with the squad who got us promoted, there’s a strong argument that we would have held our own in L2.
 

springerbfc

Active Member
Messages
368
Likes
87
Supports
Barnet
That’s a big issue which is now more of an undercurrent to everything else. There is so much wrong with the club as a whole and none of it is realistically fixable. We can’t move back to Barnet, we can’t attract fans where we are. The club is dying.



I mean, no. It’s only you and one other saying that. Others are slating the crowds whilst ignoring the reasons, some others are just pointing out how ‘extreme’ we perceive our outlook to be. But regardless, you do not watch us week in week out, you haven’t got the knowledge of the players, what’s going on behind the scenes or the context.
Sorry but in the past 12 months, we've pulled in over 6,000 for the Brentford game and over 5,000 for the Chesterfield game. Both at the Hive. We also have a somewhat unique membership scheme which as far as I understand, doesn't count towards the attendance when members do not attend, meaning attendances can be somewhat misleading for us.

There are certainly deep rooted issues with the way the club is run, and we are in genuine danger of being relegated right now. However, as far as I'm concerned, had we been knocked out of the FA Cup in Round 1, we wouldn't be in any danger of relegation at all and wouldn't be seeing such low crowds. Our cup run has without any doubt conspired against us in that respect.

If we survive this season, we will be well backed financially to challenge next season. If we do that, crowds will return to what I would say are historic norms for the club when at this level - a core support of 1,200 or so, rising to 2,000 if we are having a successful season.
 
Messages
862
Likes
349
Supports
Barnet
Okay you're right, you're obviously going down, there is certainly not 4 teams in much worse league situations and there's not a single team currently around the top 7 who probably won't be allowed to compete here next year. So nailed on mate. Relegation is a total certainty.
Pretty sure we had similar posts last year that we were being overly dramatic when we said that we could go down. Too good a squad and when you get your players back you'll soon move up the table. Not quite how it worked out in the end.

We're in a relegation scrap. Yes we have games in hand to help us, but we've burned three of those and have taken one point from them and made our goal difference 5 worse off. Most supporters in this league should still be able to remember going through a relegation campaign. People telling you that you aren't going to go down, when you know full well that you are in real danger of it, is clearly going to be irksome.

Are we certainties to go down? Of course not.
Do I think we'll go down? No, I think we'll just about do enough.
Can we go down? Absolutely.
Can we beat Hartlepool? Yes, and things will look a lot brighter again. Lose and the spectre of Allen looms which will be a horror show for us.
 
Messages
49
Likes
11
Location
London
Supports
Leyton Orient
Yes, there is a big gulf between League Two and the Conference. Of our promotion winning squad, only three are still first team regulars (Davies, Norwood and Jennings). Most of the rest were not really up to it.

The mid-table Crewe and Grimsby sides we have just beaten are better than the Wrexham and Orient teams I watched on Saturday.

I have always wanted Orient to go up this season, plus (grudgingly) Wrexham.
I can accept that L2 is obviously a higher level of football. But my club spent the best part of 10 years the level above that prior to the Italian tosser taking over in 2015. A forward line of Bonne, Jay Simpson and Josh Koroma sitting behind are good enough for L1 let alone L2. Our manager Edinburgh said earlier in the season that this squad with no changes would be no where near relegation worries in L2 and more likely top 8, that was before we signed Jay Simpson. We have 2 high class young Centre backs in Happe and Ekpetita (who was being scouted by Brentford before Dean Smith went to Villa). We may need to improve on full backs and a new goalkeeper and a new centre midfielder but that's about it. This team would of never got us relegated from the football league.
 

Fyldefan

Active Member
Messages
630
Likes
95
Location
Fylde
Supports
Afc fylde
Norwoods a superstar. Couldn't hit a barn door when he was down here. I watch lower league football when it's on TV and the standard is every bit as poor as it is in this division. A few teams at the top of league 2 are obviously going to be a lot better than our teams at the top. Bar that I dont think theres much difference but of course I could be completely wrong
 

Mark kavanagh

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,916
Likes
610
Location
Birkenhead
Supports
Tranmere
Norwoods a superstar. Couldn't hit a barn door when he was down here. I watch lower league football when it's on TV and the standard is every bit as poor as it is in this division. A few teams at the top of league 2 are obviously going to be a lot better than our teams at the top. Bar that I dont think theres much difference but of course I could be completely wrong
Would you believe cookie was better, imagine if he hadnt got his titty lip over getting dropped for stockton then alabi
 

The Terminator

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,383
Likes
359
Supports
Leyton Orient
Thread starter #130
Would you believe cookie was better, imagine if he hadnt got his titty lip over getting dropped for stockton then alabi
Speaking of Alabi, looks like he is on his way out of here now as well - He didn't even make the bench on Tuesday, JE preferred not to name a striker on the bench!

He's done alot more for us than he did for you, scored a few and set up few but nowhere near good or consistent enough.
 

Soup Ladle

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,639
Likes
837
Supports
Hartlepool
L2 technically and fitness wise is better than here for sure. I think most sides here could beat a bottom half L2 side on their day but consistently not many would apart from a few. The general standard is quite similar but there's a lot more quality in both boxes than this league.
 

Soup Ladle

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,639
Likes
837
Supports
Hartlepool
I can accept that L2 is obviously a higher level of football. But my club spent the best part of 10 years the level above that prior to the Italian tosser taking over in 2015. A forward line of Bonne, Jay Simpson and Josh Koroma sitting behind are good enough for L1 let alone L2.
I'm not in any business arguing with a brother but are you sure that's a L1 forward line? Might be stretching it a little....??
 
Messages
49
Likes
11
Location
London
Supports
Leyton Orient
I'm not in any business arguing with a brother but are you sure that's a L1 forward line? Might be stretching it a little....??
Well, Sunderland bid for Koroma in January. Simpson has played higher than that before, which only leaves Bonne and he is on 21 goals and to me looks like a decent mobile centre forward. So quite probably good enough, but could argue all day about it.
 

Soup Ladle

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,639
Likes
837
Supports
Hartlepool
Well, Scott Loach has been in England squads before but he's not better than L2 max.

If I compare our days in L1 with Joel Porter and Boyd (yeah don't laugh) miles ahead of anything here. But then we were a very good team and unlucky not to get promoted to the Championship on a couple of occasions. Reffed out. Anyway I'll start blubbering so back to the matter on hand...

Bonne to me seen him a few times, definitely L2 quality and has potential but I think if you pitted that forward line right now in L1, they'd not worry that many sides.
 
Messages
49
Likes
11
Location
London
Supports
Leyton Orient
Well, Scott Loach has been in England squads before but he's not better than L2 max.

If I compare our days in L1 with Joel Porter and Boyd (yeah don't laugh) miles ahead of anything here. But then we were a very good team and unlucky not to get promoted to the Championship on a couple of occasions. Reffed out. Anyway I'll start blubbering so back to the matter on hand...

Bonne to me seen him a few times, definitely L2 quality and has potential but I think if you pitted that forward line right now in L1, they'd not worry that many sides.
I guess it depends on the blend. On paper a 37 yo Lisbie and an inconsistent lightweight Mooney were not much cop. But they bagged about 40 goals between them in one season. I would say delivery and quality and pace from the sides is much higher in L1, where someone like Bonne could possibly thrive in the right team. I'm not knocking the quality of that division, I loved being in it. When we were first promoted the first thing that struck me was how easily and regularly strikers could score from outside the box.
 

Soup Ladle

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,639
Likes
837
Supports
Hartlepool
I guess it depends on the blend. On paper a 37 yo Lisbie and an inconsistent lightweight Mooney were not much cop. But they bagged about 40 goals between them in one season. I would say delivery and quality and pace from the sides is much higher in L1, where someone like Bonne could possibly thrive in the right team. I'm not knocking the quality of that division, I loved being in it. When we were first promoted the first thing that struck me was how easily and regularly strikers could score from outside the box.
Yeah L1 when we first went up I was struck by how much more technical it was and how many teams tried to play actual football. Not always successfully but the intent was there. The top sides were really good, I remember we were up there at one time and QPR came to the Vic, we were also a good footballing side, brilliant home record but they came and did us 4-1, there was only a couple of points between us but they were absolute class. World of difference from L2 which is like here but more clinical.

I get your point that more technical divisions would suit Bonne etc, I've spent a fair bit of time in Holland (ex was from there) and watched a lot of 2nd tier games and I reckon our Nicky Featherstone would thrive in the dutch leagues. Technically very good but not suited to this league at all so he struggles and gets a load of stick. Maybe that front 3 would be good in L1 but I'd have to see what they do in L2 next season to make a clear case.
 

Monkey Tennis

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,011
Likes
844
Location
Barra
Supports
Bluebirds
We are generating income from our membership rather than just relying on numbers coming through the gate. I have a membership but didn’t go on Tuesday, for example...

Ah, got you - thought you were suggesting it's unusual for non-attendees to not be counted on the gate.
 

RLC

Active Member
Messages
919
Likes
208
Location
Birkenhead
Supports
Tranmere Rovers
Cook, Norburn, Ginnelly and Clarke of our promotion squad are all with clubs at a higher level, while Ritchie Sutton is a regular starter at Morecambe. If we’d had to stick with the squad who got us promoted, there’s a strong argument that we would have held our own in L2.
Sutton is not good enough for a promotion chasing League Two side, while Clarke and Ginnelly hardly played in the regular season last year. So you are not comparing apples with apples.

Cook and Norburn are obviously good enough, but they are two players, not a squad of eighteen.
 

RLC

Active Member
Messages
919
Likes
208
Location
Birkenhead
Supports
Tranmere Rovers
I can accept that L2 is obviously a higher level of football. But my club spent the best part of 10 years the level above that prior to the Italian tosser taking over in 2015. A forward line of Bonne, Jay Simpson and Josh Koroma sitting behind are good enough for L1 let alone L2. Our manager Edinburgh said earlier in the season that this squad with no changes would be no where near relegation worries in L2 and more likely top 8, that was before we signed Jay Simpson. We have 2 high class young Centre backs in Happe and Ekpetita (who was being scouted by Brentford before Dean Smith went to Villa). We may need to improve on full backs and a new goalkeeper and a new centre midfielder but that's about it. This team would of never got us relegated from the football league.
You looked better than Wrexham on Saturday, and you obviously know your squad better than I do. However, you are not running away with the league and probably have similar quality overall to Rovers last season.

There is no way the squad that won us promotion would have made the top eight without significant changes. Our season looked like petering out in January and we needed a major overhaul to make us competitive at the top end of the division. It was the same with Lincoln the previous season.
 
Messages
695
Likes
317
Location
Birkenhead
Supports
Tranmere Rovers
You looked better than Wrexham on Saturday, and you obviously know your squad better than I do. However, you are not running away with the league and probably have similar quality overall to Rovers last season.

There is no way the squad that won us promotion would have made the top eight without significant changes. Our season looked like petering out in January and we needed a major overhaul to make us competitive at the top end of the division. It was the same with Lincoln the previous season.
Completely correct, I think Lincoln's starting eleven at our place had maybe one player from the team that won the National League just over a year before. Plus of course everyone's favourite, Matt Rhead, warming a considerable portion of the bench.
 

Boz

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,723
Likes
212
Location
Huddersfield
Supports
Tranmere Rovers
Sutton is not good enough for a promotion chasing League Two side, while Clarke and Ginnelly hardly played in the regular season last year. So you are not comparing apples with apples.

Cook and Norburn are obviously good enough, but they are two players, not a squad of eighteen.
Ridehalgh when fit has played most games this season. A marmite player, who alternated with Clarke at left-back/wing-back last season.

My point remains that the Rovers squad who got us up would have been entirely capable of keeping us in L2. That suggests the gulf between the top NL sides and L2 teams isn’t so vast. Would be interesting to see how Macc would have fared if they’d been able to hold on to all the players who got them up.

Where there is a big difference is comparing the best L2 sides with NL teams. I agree that Rovers wouldn’t be in the promotion mix without those players recruited in the summer [Banks Monthe Ellis] or January [Perkins Pringle].
 

Luke Imp

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
8,033
Likes
1,947
Location
Lincoln
Supports
Lincoln City
You looked better than Wrexham on Saturday, and you obviously know your squad better than I do. However, you are not running away with the league and probably have similar quality overall to Rovers last season.

There is no way the squad that won us promotion would have made the top eight without significant changes. Our season looked like petering out in January and we needed a major overhaul to make us competitive at the top end of the division. It was the same with Lincoln the previous season.
Completely correct, I think Lincoln's starting eleven at our place had maybe one player from the team that won the National League just over a year before. Plus of course everyone's favourite, Matt Rhead, warming a considerable portion of the bench.
Yep, just the one started - Harry Anderson (who was on loan in the NL). Rhead got 10 minutes.

We were probably slightly different to you in that we ripped through our NL squad quite quickly. Some we sold (Woodyard and Raggett in the first summer window along with Waterfall this summer) and ended up about 50/50 between NL and FL squad when we kicked off back in the FL. Then we got rid of more in the January window and replaced.

History tells you that, as a rule of thumb, those who keep their squad the same, or at least very similar, struggle in their first season or two back - Grimsby, Mansfield, York, Cheltenham, Macclesfield this season. Of course, it helps if you have the finance to be able to change your squad quicker. It's much easier for a Lincoln or Tranmere to do that than a Cheltenham or Macclesfield.

We only have two permanent members of our NL squad left - Habergham (who hasn't played for a year due to a career threatening injury and wouldn't be ahead of Toffolo anyway) and Rhead (offered a new deal, doesn't play too much and more of a last 15/20 minutes type of player).
 
Messages
49
Likes
11
Location
London
Supports
Leyton Orient
You looked better than Wrexham on Saturday, and you obviously know your squad better than I do. However, you are not running away with the league and probably have similar quality overall to Rovers last season.

There is no way the squad that won us promotion would have made the top eight without significant changes. Our season looked like petering out in January and we needed a major overhaul to make us competitive at the top end of the division. It was the same with Lincoln the previous season.
I think if we won promotion and lost any of Bonne, Koroma, Ekpiteta, Simpson or Happe we would be much weaker for it. With the exception of Simpson (who is proven at L2 level) they are all young, hungry and gifted players with bags of potential. The rest of our squad obviously they would have alot to prove and are replaceable with maybe the exception of McAnuff (who is still a great pro just a matter of if he still has the legs) and Clay I think is probably decent enough.
 

John Still

Active Member
Messages
680
Likes
136
Location
Essex
Supports
Dagenham
Not had a chance to post since our terrible defeat at Havant on Tuesday night, worst performance of the season by far and not even a shot on target the whole night. We we’re missing Balanta and he’s now fit but Wilkinson is out injured, typical.

Is it end of the season yet.
 

RLC

Active Member
Messages
919
Likes
208
Location
Birkenhead
Supports
Tranmere Rovers
Ridehalgh when fit has played most games this season. A marmite player, who alternated with Clarke at left-back/wing-back last season.

My point remains that the Rovers squad who got us up would have been entirely capable of keeping us in L2. That suggests the gulf between the top NL sides and L2 teams isn’t so vast. Would be interesting to see how Macc would have fared if they’d been able to hold on to all the players who got them up.

Where there is a big difference is comparing the best L2 sides with NL teams. I agree that Rovers wouldn’t be in the promotion mix without those players recruited in the summer [Banks Monthe Ellis] or January [Perkins Pringle].
I thought Macc did hold on to most of the players who took them up, with the exception of Whitehead ? I know they have been unlucky with injuries but they have struggled badly, as did FGR last season.

I maintain that the gulf even between the mid table sides in League Two and the National League is very big. We might have survived with the players you mention, but we would not have been in the top half. That would mean a side that won 95 and 86 points in successive National League seasons potentially ending up in a relegation scrap, which emphasises that there is a gulf between the two levels.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
14,352
Messages
858,302
Members
4,747
Latest member
bestbettingzone