PL shit that doesn't need it's own thread.

Renegade

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And if you're a journalist GodsGift, you should know very well why in this moment in time, when journalism is repeatedly attacked by the powers that be, that the line between opinions and journalism has to be stressed over and over again.

But maybe it's my credibility on the forum that's hitting me here, here's the wikipedia articles with lots of good sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columnist
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalist
Have a semi-related question for you (and GG if he wants to pitch in) - what do you think about opinion pieces being heavily featured on the homepages of all major news websites? Do they serve a legitimate purpose or are they a means to rouse a newspaper's political agenda?

It is one of my biggest gripes with current media - that alongside real fact-based articles, the homepages of major news outlets are littered with opinion pieces. It may say 'opinion' in the article's header, but because the author has been afforded such a prominent position on the news outlet's website, I worry that their views are taken as fact by many. I have lost count of the number of times people have cited opinion-based articles at me, as though they have credence in a fact-based debate.

Obviously not referring to MacKenzie here. More pieces written by actual journalists, perhaps written with good intent, but promoting an agenda that suits the news outlet. I think the opinions of individual journalists should very clearly be separated from the facts in order not to sway the minds of the general public. I don't see this happening where I consume most of my news, including The Guardian, supposed paragon of journalistic integrity (though as I type, their website actually doesn't have any opinion pieces directly below the major headlines, that's not the norm).
 
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Bilo

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Have a semi-related question for you (and GG if he wants to pitch in) - what do you think about opinion pieces being heavily featured on the homepages of all major news websites? Do they serve a legitimate purpose or are they a means to rouse a newspaper's political agenda?

It is one of my biggest gripes with current media - that alongside real fact-based articles, the homepages of major news outlets are littered with opinion pieces. It may say 'opinion' in the article's header, but because the author has been afforded such a prominent position on the news outlet's website, I worry that their views are taken as fact by many. I have lost count of the number of times people have cited opinion-based articles at me, as though they have credence in a fact-based debate.

Obviously not referring to MacKenzie here. More pieces written by actual journalists, perhaps written with good intent, but promoting an agenda that suits the news outlet. I think the opinions of individual journalists should very clearly be separated from the facts in order not to sway the minds of the general public. I don't see this happening where I consume most of my news, including The Guardian, supposed paragon of journalistic integrity (though as I type, their website actually doesn't have any opinion pieces directly below the major headlines, that's not the norm).
I'm out right now, will get back to you later tonight on this, it's a very interesting topic and one which will grow as a debate in the coming years.
 

Bilo

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Have a semi-related question for you (and GG if he wants to pitch in) - what do you think about opinion pieces being heavily featured on the homepages of all major news websites? Do they serve a legitimate purpose or are they a means to rouse a newspaper's political agenda?

It is one of my biggest gripes with current media - that alongside real fact-based articles, the homepages of major news outlets are littered with opinion pieces. It may say 'opinion' in the article's header, but because the author has been afforded such a prominent position on the news outlet's website, I worry that their views are taken as fact by many. I have lost count of the number of times people have cited opinion-based articles at me, as though they have credence in a fact-based debate.

Obviously not referring to MacKenzie here. More pieces written by actual journalists, perhaps written with good intent, but promoting an agenda that suits the news outlet. I think the opinions of individual journalists should very clearly be separated from the facts in order not to sway the minds of the general public. I don't see this happening where I consume most of my news, including The Guardian, supposed paragon of journalistic integrity (though as I type, their website actually doesn't have any opinion pieces directly below the major headlines, that's not the norm).
This turned out long as fuck so heads up, there's a TL;DR at the bottom.

There are two important base-lines you have to consider opening this can of worms, I'd say:

First one is that opinionated pieces such as columns and political agenda setting texts are extremely valuable. The time it takes to write them in the light of the clicks they generate make them an extremely important resource to any major newspaper.

Secondly, it's important to keep in mind just how separate these two sections are at any given newspaper in western Europe. For example, back when I was learning the trade, before I got my degree, I worked at a local newspaper in my hometown. That newspaper was actually mostly famous for their political writers, all very talented. Never met a single one of them at the office, they were so far separated from the journalistic process that I can't even say I considered them colleagues. This won't be quite as extreme at any newspaper, but it's certainly more common to have them completely separated than in any way integrated with the newsroom. There are exceptions of course, especially in America where the journalistic tradition is very different. But as far as I know, there aren't any prominent examples in England where the line is so blurred that it reasonably should affect that integrity of the newsroom and the pieces they produce (whereas in America, you'll have to know the political standpoint of almost any newspaper you choose to read).

Also, I know a bit about the Guardian's digital strategy because they've worked closely with the Swedish public service due to the fact that it's one of the very few news outlets in western Europe that hasn't taken a hit in the public opinion post 2008 (actually they did this year, down two points, but you catch my drift). Without going into details, I can assure you that the main point of pushing those articles has very little to do with the views they present; they just happen to be financial gold and that goes above almost anything. It's clickbait, but here's a quote I'm fond of regarding clickbaits from the former head of news at the NY Times, Jill Abramson:

“In my years, I used to laugh that everything you agreed to in terms of lighter or more advertising-friendly content would be because we needed that advertising revenue to support the Baghdad Bureau." (https://www.wired.com/2017/02/new-york-times-digital-journalism/)

So at the end of the day, the problem lies within the fact that this has to be explained. Back when we were reading paper newspapers, the line was obviously more clearly drawn. And I think the fact that the line is less clearly drawn nowadays (an opinionated piece can really be right besides a news article with little to distinguish between them) makes people more suspicious of the non-opinionated pieces in the newspaper. This combined with the major political forces whom base much of their political theory in discrediting the media makes it a much bigger problem. Because when people no longer understand how separated the processes are, and what thinking lies behind publishing opinionated pieces; the conclusion that they are one and the same, integrated with the journalism, seems almost logical.

Now as a final disclaimer I know the processes at the BBC and the Guardian well enough. I can't swear on my life just how separated these processes are at the S*n, for example (Murdoch is a factor himself which I choose to ignore as it's besides the general point). But I know, as well as they, what kind of hit in integrity and credibility any news source in western Europe would take if the processes were shown to be in fact integrated. And as the clicks is the main motivation much rather than the actual agenda it presents, there actually isn't much of a reason to integrate them at all. The win is non-existent.

TL;DR: It's a problem right now, but it's a problem in the public opinion rather than in the actual process. The right wing populism has to pass (it will) and the line has to be more clearly drawn.
 
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Renegade

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Thanks for that, interesting to hear the views of someone inside the profession. I wasn't aware of the monetary value of opinion pieces, though I'm not sure if it's less nefarious that news outlets promote them next to factual pieces for financial reasons as opposed to my earlier hunch that they were pushing a political agenda. Both are undesirable if they affect the overall quality of content or have too much sway in influencing public opinion, though perhaps this is the price of funding proper journalism in our current economy. I think I'll dig further down the rabbit hole this evening, it is a very interesting topic.
 
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Bilo

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I recommend the link in my post, it's a fantastic piece and very available regardless of your prior knowledge. It's more specifically about financing journalism rather than anything else, but it goes well to show which way we're heading even if, like previously stated, the journalistic tradition in America is very, very different.
 

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Fair few articles about today saying that we're considering a change of management at the end of the season.

Can't say I'd be too bothered.
 

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Fair few articles about today saying that we're considering a change of management at the end of the season.

Can't say I'd be too bothered.

You said you wanted Marco Silva, didn't you?

You should have a good chance of landing him in the summer if your board are interested, which I'd imagine they are.
 

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It's about time for Watford's next managerial change too, Mazzarri must be looking over his shoulder
 

Jamie_SFC

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You said you wanted Marco Silva, didn't you?

You should have a good chance of landing him in the summer if your board are interested, which I'd imagine they are.

I did find myself wanting Marco Silva on Saturday. Hull were fantastic for the majority of the game and reminded me of Pochettino's Saints in his early days here. We were supposedly interested in Silva last summer but opted for Puel due to his experience in Europe, that went well.

Puel wasn't helped by Les Reed in the two transfer windows to be fair to him. Reed's failure to sort out the CB situation in January probably cost us a cup win as well, but the majority of our games this season have been dull as fuck, especially at home.
 

HarvSFC

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As bad as it might sound, now that we're safe and guaranteed no European football next season it may be for the best if we lose the majority of our remaining fixtures (which we probably will). Will hopefully wake the board up after two stagnant summers.
 

SALTIRE

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As bad as it might sound, now that we're safe and guaranteed no European football next season it may be for the best if we lose the majority of our remaining fixtures (which we probably will). Will hopefully wake the board up after two stagnant summers.
You can start as the weekend if you'd like. ;)
 

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Manchester City have joined Liverpool in being banned from signing academy players for tapping-up two schoolboys – including one aged just 11.

City were given the same length suspension as the Anfield club, a two-year transfer embargo on players registered with a rival Premier League or EFL side in the preceding 18 months, with the second year’s ban suspended for three years.

They were also fined £300,000, £200,000 more than Liverpool, who were last month found guilty of tapping up one schoolboy footballer and offering inducements to him and his family.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...ity-hit-transfer-ban-signing-academy-players/
 

Ciderup

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Please excuse the incursion by a lowly Championship supporter but I wanted to thank Chelsea for letting us have Tammy Abraham for the season.
This kid isn't just a very good footballer but he's been an absolute star where supporters are involved, finding time for everyone who wants his attention and been an absolute credit to my club, Bristol City, and his parent club, Chelsea.
You will see a lot of this kid as he's an absolute diamond, very refreshing in the modern game to see youngster so good and so humble.
He's been a total pleasure to have at our club and is destined for great things.
Thank you Chelsea and thank you Tammy! If you have any more like him, please send them our way.
 

JimJams

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Think we've put an offer in for him.
 

Kyle Hatch

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Question: given this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39882054 lets assume that the agent got the reported 15 mil that was said at the time, especially as Juve have said they recieved 74mil from the deal. + 15, makes the reported 89mil cost. Is pogba still a record transfer, given that a transfer happens between 2 clubs and agent fees are seperate?

I know the article says up to 41 mil, but you assume some of that is addon's. Although i wouldn't be surprised to hear, Juve actually got 89mil and another 41 to the agent...but lets hope for footballs sake that isn't the case.

it makes no real difference, United can afford to pay it and which ever way you splice it, it's a ridiculous fee to pay someone to come pay football for you, not even going into wages. Idle curiosity.
 

Pagnell

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And not to mention the fact he hasn't been particularly good.
 

Kyle Hatch

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i don't buy this whole Pogba hasn't been particularly good argument that isn't just from the above. I've seen it on here and heard it offline.

Value for money, no. But he's creates a fair amount of chances a game for the strike force. Ibra's missed a fair few decent chances which would of seen pogba's return look better on paper. I understand that you may not of watch all/most of united's games this season but to say Pogba has been particular poor must mean you either have very high standards or are talking out of your arse.

As i said, if you finished your statement with .... for the money spent, i might of been inclined to agree. But given return on value is spread out over the life of the product i would of gone with a wait and see. If improvement doesn't come then perhaps.

But this season alone, he's been a decent central midfielder, who has created plenty and at times been a real meance in the midfield. At other times' he's passed poorly and gone missing. Not unlike another tall rangey midfielder who most raved about on the blue half of manchester, some still to this day, although his powers have long since wained.

ANYWAY...any thoughts on what i actaully said, instead of just having a dig at a united player (there are enough of those topics here)
 

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41 million. Bent over a barrel. :lol:
 

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firmino's transfer to liverpool could also be investigated. i'm sure these stories recently breaking has nothing to do with fifa distracting people from the sacking of two leaders of the ethics committee.
 

Bilo

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In other news, Chelsea won the league. Didn't deserve its own thread.
 

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If it did, someone would have made it 3 months ago.
 

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Congratulations Chelsea. Still funny as fuck that the gurning German c*** couldn't challenge despite the hype about him since his appointment.
 

SALTIRE

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In other news, Chelsea won the league. Didn't deserve its own thread.
They won it and the silence is deafening and speaks volumes about that club and their fans.
 

SALTIRE

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Congratulations Chelsea. Still funny as fuck that the gurning German c*** couldn't challenge despite the hype about him since his appointment.
Well they did get lucky unlike said German's side.
 

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'If during each season of the term of this contract the player is not dismissed from the field of play on three or more occasions for violent conduct, spitting, for using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures and/or for dissent ... then on the June 30 at the end of each season he shall receive a bonus payment of £1 million.'

A clause in Balotelli's contract while he was at Liverpool.
 

SALTIRE

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'If during each season of the term of this contract the player is not dismissed from the field of play on three or more occasions for violent conduct, spitting, for using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures and/or for dissent ... then on the June 30 at the end of each season he shall receive a bonus payment of £1 million.'

A clause in Balotelli's contract while he was at Liverpool.
Old news mate.
 

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