SPFL Tops European Attendances yet again

St. Juste

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42696675

With an average of 11,436 fans attending SPFL top flight matches this represents 0.21% of the population - a huge 0.07% above second place Norway. This is despite having a number of larger teams, such as St. Mirren and Dundee United, in the second tier whilst smaller clubs like Ross County (from a village) and Hamilton are in the top flight.

It's an exceptional achievement - and yet more proof football is more popular in Scotland than it is anywhere else in the world. Most astonishingly, this has been the case consistently for the past 150 years since football was invented - no country has yet came close to our fanaticism with the national game.

For reference England comes 11th in the list with 0.07%. Some allowance should be made from some grounds not being big enough - I guess with unlimited capacity they could reach 0.09%? Not doing too badly, really.
 
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Stevencc

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I saw a piece of shit the other day.

There were flies all over it.

It was still a piece of shit.
 

Dirk

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I saw a piece of shit the other day.

There were flies all over it.

It was still a piece of shit.
Harsh, steven. The Scots love their football, that's good. It's not the fault of the supporters of all the clubs besides Celtic that it is a one team league atm....like the Bundesliga, unfortunately. And yet we Germans love our football too.

Germany's Bundesliga has the highest average gates per game during this period, with 42,388. The Premier League is second on 35,870, with Spain's La Liga nearly 10,000 behind. Italy's Serie A is fourth and Ligue 1 of France is fifth.

The English Championship is seventh on this list on 17,856 - slightly ahead of Bundesliga 2, but clear of Russia's top flight and the Scottish Premiership in 10th place.
for the 10th year in a row we have the highest average attendance of all football leagues worldwide (only one sports league has a higher average attendance and that's the NFL (68.000) (according to the above metrics USA has nearly 4-times the population of Germany ( 323 m to 82m) although we have actually a one team league too (for the 5th and soon 6th year running). Interesting that the English Championship and the 2.Bundesliga have still a higher average attendance than the Russian League.
 

GTFCfish

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42696675

With an average of 11,436 fans attending SPFL top flight matches this represents 0.21% of the population - a huge 0.7% above second place Norway.
So Norway in second place average -0.49% of the population so in other words no one at all in Norway goes to football and yet they're second, dread to think what fucking third place average then pal.
 

AFCB_Mark

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Yeovil Town regularly pull in 10% of their town's population. Someone give them a shiny sticker or something.
 

St. Juste

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I saw a piece of shit the other day.

There were flies all over it.

It was still a piece of shit.
Good reply, will read again.

There ain't much else going on up there though, let's be honest.
Have you ever been?

How much of Scotland's population attends schools where mathematics is taught?
I should correct myself and state 0.07% above. Might have been obvious but nevertheless needs clarifying.

Yeovil Town regularly pull in 10% of their town's population. Someone give them a shiny sticker or something.
Ross County pull in an average of 75% of Dingwalls population.

Interesting geographical reasons as to why that is the case.
 

St. Juste

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Lived up there Aug 2015 - Aug 2017.

Think you kinda confirmed my comment with the Ross County bit, was pretty similar in Elgin.
Interestingly, the highlands is one of the few areas of Scotland with a sport that actually competes with football in shinty.

Still impressive that an area, with by far the lowest population density in the UK (and amongst the lowest in non Scandinavian Europe) can sustain a top flight Premiership team. And not even too far away there is another team regularly in the top flight - Inverness.

But overall, the incredible statistics are predominantly down to the West of Scotland. There is surely no area on earth that it is as football dominated as Glasgow and the West of Scotland. Buenos Aires sustains plenty of professional teams, but it's also more than ten times the size. I've lived in Rio and the city, which has just about everything going for it, does not have anywhere near the same focus on football.

Depending on how you far you want to go out, there are around 8 full time professional teams in Glasgow and the surrounding area, including by far the two largest. As well as one of football most distinguished old clubs in Queens Park.

The Manchester metropolitan area, more than twice the size, have 7 clubs in the league (I don't which non league clubs are professional). This is probably the most football mad part of England. Liverpool has 2.

London, never a footballing city, has 12. Based on a population of 10 times the greater Glasgow area, and twice of Scotland as a whole.
 

St. Juste

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If that's the case, why are you so shit at it?
We are not. Over the past 150 years our footballing record is excellent.

If anything, our recent middling form has been far more down to other nations getting better, rather than us getting worse.

Look at the evolution of the German or Belgian leagues, decades behind Scotland in just about every way.
 

Dirk

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Look at the evolution of the German or Belgian leagues, decades behind Scotland in just about every way.
The German League System was totally different to any of the so-called Home countries in the pre-Bundesliga era (at least for winning the country's Championship)

After World War 2 we had several Top leagues called Oberligen (Oberliga Nord (dominating team from 1947-1963 was HSV (won 15 of the 16 Oberliga Nord Championships, Hannover 96 won the "other one"):D), Oberliga Süd (South), Süd-West (South-West), West and Oberliga Berlin). The Champions of the several Oberligen played in a final round for the German Championship.

Before the war we had the same with the several "Gauligen" in the 3rd Reich and so on..... So, yes, the German League was different to the british League System for 60 years until the formation of the Bundesliga in 1963.
 
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St. Juste

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The German League System was totally different to any of the so-called Home countries in the pre-Bundesliga era (at least for winning the country's Championship)

After World War 2 we had several Top leagues called Oberligen (Oberliga Nord (dominating team from 1947-1963 was HSV (won 15 of the 16 Oberliga Nord Championships, Hannover 96 won the "other one"):D), Oberliga Süd (South), Süd-West (South-West), West and Oberliga Berlin). The Champions of the several Oberligen played in a final round for the German Championship.

Before the war we had the same with the several "Gauligen" in the 3rd Reich and so on..... So, yes, the German League was different to the british League System for 60 years until the formation of the Bundesliga in 1963.
Yes I'm aware, I just finished reading Tor! (Moving onto Morbo next).

What's incredible is the success of the team in the 1954 World Cup - even when Germany didn't even really have a professional league. Great achievement. And even better, the star of the team needed to avoid hot weather to be effective on account of the malaria he contracted during the war.

It's quite a story.

But overall, my point was for a long term most nations were well behind Scotland in the development of their football and league structure. Now most have caught up, and that competitive advantage has gone. It's incomplete to say Scotland are "worse" than they were 30, 40 years ago - I think it's more a case that everyone else has gotten better. Celtic will never win another European Cup, but neither will Steaua Bucharest, Porto or Ajax. It's the way football has gone, and there's nothing that can stop it.
 

Dirk

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Yes I'm aware, I just finished reading Tor! (Moving onto Morbo next).

What's incredible is the success of the team in the 1954 World Cup - even when Germany didn't even really have a professional league. Great achievement. And even better, the star of the team needed to avoid hot weather to be effective on account of the malaria he contracted during the war.

It's quite a story.
Yeah, Fritz Walter, one of our greatest football legends. Until today in every football commentary in Germany when it is raining a bit the reporter shouting " typisches Fritz Walter Wetter (typical Fritz Walter Weather)". It was "his weather" where he performed best (and yes the malaria he got during the war was part of this). Unfortunately this bloody war robbed him nearly 10 of his best football years. He was already in the team in 1940 and after the war Germany wasn't allowed to play internationals until 1950. He played nearly his whole career at Kaiserslautern and the stadium, the famous Betzenberg, bears nowadays his name. Fritz Walter Stadium

But overall, my point was for a long term most nations were well behind Scotland in the development of their football and league structure. Now most have caught up, and that competitive advantage has gone.
I know what you meant with the above sentence. I just wanted to show the differences between the traditional british League System (meaning English and Scottish) from the beginning of the professional football leagues in 1888 and the German League System from 1900-1963 which was more "federal" (meaning several top leagues (regional leagues) with the points system just as in Britain but for the German Championship with a final round of the champions of these regional leagues...damn, not so easy to describe in English :D ) until the formation of the Bundesliga where we inherited the classical system of British football)

It's incomplete to say Scotland are "worse" than they were 30, 40 years ago - I think it's more a case that everyone else has gotten better. Celtic will never win another European Cup, but neither will Steaua Bucharest, Porto or Ajax. It's the way football has gone, and there's nothing that can stop it.
I, for one, will never say anything negative about scottish football because I love Scotland and I love the rich history of british football. I mentioned somewhere here months ago the big duells between German and Scottish clubs in the several European club competitions in the 70's and 80's. We had the utmost respect when playing the Dundee clubs or Aberdeen or Hearts (let alone Celtic and Rangers) back then and even today when playing against Scottish teams we don't take it lightly.
I see you mentioned Queens Park....Some time ago I mentioned them too in this thread, the International Football History Thread:

https://www.onefootballforum.co.uk/...al-football-history-thread.18187/#post-704353
 

Leo

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Shhhhh Dirk, St. Juste was on the cusp of writing a seven paragraph reply in anger.
You bastard Steven!!! What a can of fucking worms you've opened. Now we're going to get regurgitated shit from what he has posted in English & international forums on here. Cheers mate......:ffs:
 

St. Juste

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Are you by any chance related to Russell Slade, as he also has a problem distinguishing between good and shite.
How many Scottish football games have you seen? And what are you asserting we are "shite" relative to?

As for Dirk - great post, German football is a fascinating and highly successful story. One of the best revelations of Tor! was how much the author (and he asserts German football) dislikes Lothar Matthaus.
 

GTFCfish

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How many Scottish football games have you seen? And what are you asserting we are "shite" relative to?
Relative to other European Countries who actually manage to qualify for the occasional World Cup or Euros once in a while, unlike Scotland.

Are you saying you actually disputed the fact that Scotland are shite?

If England never qualified for anything for instance, no England fans would deny the fact that we would be shite, don't see why you seem to struggle understanding this context?
 

Chris FGR

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But overall, my point was for a long term most nations were well behind Scotland in the development of their football and league structure. Now most have caught up, and that competitive advantage has gone. It's incomplete to say Scotland are "worse" than they were 30, 40 years ago - I think it's more a case that everyone else has gotten better. Celtic will never win another European Cup, but neither will Steaua Bucharest, Porto or Ajax. It's the way football has gone, and there's nothing that can stop it.
But you can't argue that you used to produce world class players, and now don't. Not even close. So you must be worse.

If countries like Croatia, Belgium and Uruguay can produce world class players, why can't you?
 

Dirk

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As for Dirk - great post, German football is a fascinating and highly successful story. One of the best revelations of Tor! was how much the author (and he asserts German football) dislikes Lothar Matthaus.
tbh I can't stand "Loddar" either ;). Actually he works as a tv pundit for German Sky and like in his (enormously succesful, I give him that) playing days he talks a lot of BS.
(I was totally gutted when he got "Ehrenspielführer" (Honourary Captain) of the Nationalmannschaft after ending his career in 2001. Meant that he was now in a row with our legends Fritz Walter, Uwe Seeler and Franz Beckenbauer. I know his merits but he hasn't the same personal class like these 3 (anyway now we even have Jürgen Klinsmann (2016) and Philip Lahm (2017)....it's not seldom anymore to get this honour it seems)

If England never qualified for anything for instance, no England fans would deny the fact that we would be shite, don't see why you seem to struggle understanding this context?
I can believe that. Some England fans already say they are shite although they qualify regularly :D
 

Chris FGR

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I can believe that. Some England fans already say they are shite although they qualify regularly :D
That's because by any half decent nations standards we are tbf. Good at qualifying (apart from 08), shit at tournaments. Still miles better then the Jocks though. :bdick:

It's all relative I suppose, I even know Germans who moan about ther own team a lot, and Germany's record is ridiculously good.
 

Dirk

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It's all relative I suppose, I even know Germans who moan about ther own team a lot, and Germany's record is ridiculously good.
Of course we moan, too. When we won't reach at least the semi-finals in the Euro or World Cup then it starts like this ....:lac::hb::fing: :D
 

St. Juste

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Relative to other European Countries who actually manage to qualify for the occasional World Cup or Euros once in a while, unlike Scotland.

Are you saying you actually disputed the fact that Scotland are shite?

If England never qualified for anything for instance, no England fans would deny the fact that we would be shite, don't see why you seem to struggle understanding this context?
Over most time frames we will have a much superior record to most European nations. Recently we have not qualified, it is incredibly difficult for a nation of our size in Europe to qualify for a World Cup. As it is to qualify for a European Championship of 16 teams. With a 24 team Euros Scotland will qualify more than most.

Not that this period has been a complete dark age, we managed to beat France home and away during one campaign and have very close in several.

England is a nation with more than ten times the number of people than Scotland - it's goals and expectations are completely different. England have, without doubt, embarrassed themselves in every tournament since 2006 - maybe they were just outclassed rather than embarrassed in Euro 2012 - but if Scotland or Wales or NI had an identical record we'd be delighted. Surely you don't think Scotland have or should have the same expectations as England? It's a hierarchy dependent upon population, Brazil or Germany would be horrified if they had Englands record.

Icelands achievement is all the more remarkable given their tiny population but the fact remains, for 90% of their footballing history, they have been minnows we'd be embarrassed to draw with.

So Scotland have gone through a relatively short rough period. That doesn't mean we are "shite" at football - that would be ridiculous. Many far larger nations have gone through longer difficult periods than ourselves - look a the once mighty Hungary. Turkey are the current worst offenders too, performing horribly given their potential.

But you can't argue that you used to produce world class players, and now don't. Not even close. So you must be worse.

If countries like Croatia, Belgium and Uruguay can produce world class players, why can't you?
That's dependent upon your definition of World Class. In the last two decades players such as McAllister, Lambert and Fletcher have excelled at top clubs, and two have won Champions League titles (Fletcher getting MOTM and an incorrect sending off in a semi final). Are they World class players? For at least a time, they were excelling at the very highest level - but defensive minded central midfielders don't tend to get the same level of plaudits.

Even if you don't think these players are World Class, the fact we haven't produced any recently is again predominantly down to our population. Sometimes we will have one world class player, sometimes we will have a few, sometimes we will have none. That's a way of life for all of the nations you have listed above.

Liberia have had a world class player fairly recently, I wonder what we can learn from them?

Belgium is more than twice the size of Scotland, and have benefited enormously from migration. They cannot be compared to Scotland.


tbh I can't stand "Loddar" either ;). Actually he works as a tv pundit for German Sky and like in his (enormously succesful, I give him that) playing days he talks a lot of BS.
(I was totally gutted when he got "Ehrenspielführer" (Honourary Captain) of the Nationalmannschaft after ending his career in 2001. Meant that he was now in a row with our legends Fritz Walter, Uwe Seeler and Franz Beckenbauer. I know his merits but he hasn't the same personal class like these 3 (anyway now we even have Jürgen Klinsmann (2016) and Philip Lahm (2017)....it's not seldom anymore to get this honour it seems)

I can believe that. Some England fans already say they are shite although they qualify regularly :D
I've heard Jurgen Klinsmann especially hates Matthaus.

Although the book states Franz Beckenbauer was so unpopular he used to know he was back in Germany when people in the street heckled him.

I think eventually people started to like him.

That's because by any half decent nations standards we are tbf. Good at qualifying (apart from 08), shit at tournaments. Still miles better then the Jocks though. :bdick:

It's all relative I suppose, I even know Germans who moan about ther own team a lot, and Germany's record is ridiculously good.
Do England fans really take pride in being better than a nation they are ten times bigger than? It's like the USA being delighted they have a better armed forces than Guatemala. Bizarre behaviour.

Although the head to head record between England and Scotland is ludicrously close, far closer than it logically should be.

In the last competitive game England needed a last minute equaliser to claw a draw.
 

Dirk

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Over most time frames we will have a much superior record to most European nations. Recently we have not qualified, it is incredibly difficult for a nation of our size in Europe to qualify for a World Cup. As it is to qualify for a European Championship of 16 teams. With a 24 team Euros Scotland will qualify more than most.
24 teams in the Euro, that was, until 1994, the number of countries for the World Cup (and only16 until 1982. Unbelievable...morons all who decided that. But that's another story.....

I've heard Jurgen Klinsmann especially hates Matthaus.

Although the book states Franz Beckenbauer was so unpopular he used to know he was back in Germany when people in the street heckled him.

I think eventually people started to like him.
Yes, Klinsmann and Matthäus can't stand each other. The thing with Franz is, his footballing style was back then so untypical German and he played for Bayern and often his play was seen as a bit arrogant but he could fight too and he was always proud to play for Germany. Some people here were bitter when he moved to the USA in the NASL back then (this was called an "Operetta League" with dubious rules (penalty shootout....) . Curiously no one here thought the same when Gerd Müller went there too. Gerd was and is always loved. When Franz came back to Germany and played for my HSV all was good again ;)
 
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