The Bury summer signing uberthread. WARNING - Contains tinpot material

[SeasideKurt]

We had a BST meeting with Owen Oyston at the Hilton in Blackpool and a woman stood up and just broke down telling Owen about her love for Blackpool FC. I think she was having life difficulties and her way out was by watching her football club home and away.

During the past 5 years I found golf and Rugby to see me through the empty weekends, I didn't even see a Blackpool score until a Sunday sometimes. Not an ounce of bother if the knobbers had won 5-0 or lost 0-5. I'm slowly getting that back now.

The torture of seeing your club being dragged to its knees. Ours is different to Bury, theirs was mis management. Ours was purposeful destruction and asset ripping.

For those that sang "Oyston In" and there was quite a few. Fuck your club.

For the real fans, I hope it is solved and the future becomes brighter.

 

[Franchisor]

Something tells me that tomorrow won't be the end for Bury - there will be another extension of some kind I'd put my mortgage on it.

 

[Franchisor]

Time for laws allowing efl to take clubs off owners,

Ironically this would be a move closer to the "franchise" system in America that everyone despises.

 

[GodsGift]

Something tells me that tomorrow won't be the end for Bury - there will be another extension of some kind I'd put my mortgage on it.

This. Talk today that 4 parties are interested in buying the club and Debbie Jevans has said extra time could be granted if they show they're credible. Problem is Steve Dale will probably ignore them all.

As bad as Norman Smurthwaite is, I don't think he's done anything to warrant being banned by the EFL. And he must have some money. Far from ideal but beggars can't be choosers...

 

[UTS]

This. Talk today that 4 parties are interested in buying the club and Debbie Jevans has said extra time could be granted if they show they're credible. Problem is Steve Dale will probably ignore them all.

As bad as Norman Smurthwaite is, I don't think he's done anything to warrant being banned by the EFL. And he must have some money. Far from ideal but beggars can't be choosers...

Yes let’s accept another controversial chairman into the club purely because we have no other choice. Fuck that.

 

[WhiteRussian]

There comes a point where Bury playing catch up for all their missed games is going to border on the impossible. When is that point.

Also if Bolton are getting games posponed becuase under 23's are played mare than twice a week, what's going to happen if Bury are on 3/4 matches some weeks trying to play catchup?They won't be able to have any youngsters playing much at all.

 

[UTS]

There comes a point where Bury playing catch up for all their missed games is going to border on the impossible. When is that point.

Also if Bolton are getting games posponed becuase under 23's are played mare than twice a week, what's going to happen if Bury are on 3/4 matches some weeks trying to play catchup?They won't be able to have any youngsters playing much at all.

Nobody at Bury FC currently cares about having to play catch-up. If we’re playing catch up it means we still have a club.

We essentially have no other options now than to accept an offer off of anybody, even if they are another dodgy chairman... or go bust and start again... at this point I choose the latter.

 

[WhiteRussian]

Nobody at Bury FC currently cares about having to play catch-up. If we’re playing catch up it means we still have a club.

We essentially have no other options now than to accept an offer off of anybody, even if they are another dodgy chairman... or go bust and start again... at this point I choose the latter.

Oh I totally understand from your point of view, I was thinking of it from the practicalities of another extension from the point of view of you and other clubs having to shoehorn the games in.

Also I'm sure someone said somewhere that two postponements meat expulsion but thats obviously not true.

 

[shoddycollins]

Nobody at Bury FC currently cares about having to play catch-up. If we’re playing catch up it means we still have a club.

I think his point is that even if it gets extended on this occasion there would come a point where the EFL refuse to allow any more time because of the difficulty of Bury completing their fixtures.

The season is 38 weeks long. Teams have to play 46 games in that period. We take away Christmas and Easter weeks because scheduling is different for those, that accounts for 4 matchdays and leaves 36 weeks for the remaining 42 matches. That's 35 Saturdays because one of them will be used for FA Cup 1st round and not possible to play league matches on, and 36 potential midweek fixtures (usually Tuesday night, under normal circumstances having more than one midweek match is a no-go)

So teams will need to play 7 league games midweek, more if they get past the first round of the FA cup, or have postponements. Three Saturdays have already been and gone without Bury playing, so now they have to play 10 league games midweek and we're down to 33 potential midweek dates.

If this goes on for another three weeks then that means 13 midweek fixtures in 30 dates

Theoretically it would need to go on for about 11 weeks before Bury were left in a situation of having to play their entire season Saturday - Tuesday - Saturday. I'm sure the EFL's or maybe FA's limit where they just call it undoable will be well before that though.

 

[GodsGift]

Yes let’s accept another controversial chairman into the club purely because we have no other choice. Fuck that.

So you'd rather go under than continue in L1 with Norman Smurthwaite?

 

[UTS]

So you'd rather go under than continue in L1 with Norman Smurthwaite?

Personally if it comes to that, I’d rather just be done with it and start again with a sustainable fan owned club.

 

[valefan16]

So you'd rather go under than continue in L1 with Norman Smurthwaite?

If I was a Bury fan I would rather go under! Some of fans even looked at the Phoenix idea at one point last season.

He would likely take them out of the EFL anyway just a slower more painful way.

Bear in mind he took a decent league one Port Vale side down to its two worst league finishes in its history in three years. Only reason we had reasonable success was him living off the bounce of the promotion that administrator put together and then through an admiration and respect for Micky Adams who advised him on most things when he was managing us.

 

[Dave-Vale]

Norman would love nothing more than to be the knight in shining armour that saves Bury FC. He would certainly receive a very hostile reception if he ever dared set foot into Vale Park again. He probably would as well because he loves the corporate away day treatment.

He’s got plenty of money, apparently. Well, he’s got at least £5million that our new owners paid him for the club. However, the man is an asset stripper. Thinks he’s quite clever but he isn’t. Every penny from merchandise and food/drink kiosk sales went straight into his pocket after he split the club into a few different companies. He also separated the club from the ground almost immediately which should have set alarm bells ringing very early, it actually did for some fans.

He had an affair with some woman from the Vale offices, apparently got knocked over on his way to his liaisons with her in the flats across the road from Vale park. He then claimed a fan assaulted him when it was actually the woman’s husband punching him in his big, fat face.

I genuinely believe he has some sort of mental illness (bipolar or some sort of personality disorder, probably). His last interview on the radio before he left was incredibly weird. Mind, most of them were because he always sounded like he had usually had a drink or two before coming on air.

 

[T.A]

So you'd rather go under than continue in L1 with Norman Smurthwaite?

100% yes

 

[Optipez]

I think his point is that even if it gets extended on this occasion there would come a point where the EFL refuse to allow any more time because of the difficulty of Bury completing their fixtures.

The season is 38 weeks long. Teams have to play 46 games in that period. We take away Christmas and Easter weeks because scheduling is different for those, that accounts for 4 matchdays and leaves 36 weeks for the remaining 42 matches. That's 35 Saturdays because one of them will be used for FA Cup 1st round and not possible to play league matches on, and 36 potential midweek fixtures (usually Tuesday night, under normal circumstances having more than one midweek match is a no-go)

So teams will need to play 7 league games midweek, more if they get past the first round of the FA cup, or have postponements. Three Saturdays have already been and gone without Bury playing, so now they have to play 10 league games midweek and we're down to 33 potential midweek dates.

If this goes on for another three weeks then that means 13 midweek fixtures in 30 dates

Theoretically it would need to go on for about 11 weeks before Bury were left in a situation of having to play their entire season Saturday - Tuesday - Saturday. I'm sure the EFL's or maybe FA's limit where they just call it undoable will be well before that though.

i think you're right on this and that without cast iron assurances they'll pull the plug.
If Steve Dale is still playing up and Smurthwaite is the saviour it could take weeks to even get them close to agreement, never mind contract signing and in the end the authorities may just take a deep breath and say it has to end.
Still not convinced Bolton can fulfil their fixtures this season and they may end up in Burys position just a couple of months down the line.

 

[T.A]

There are other interested parties apparently the minister of sport is asking EFL for us to have that extension 48 hours after the bank holiday weekend.. cause we all know that this isnt important enough to work over a bank holiday weekend.

This is never going to end.

 

[Boletus Edulis]

I

Something tells me that tomorrow won't be the end for Bury - there will be another extension of some kind I'd put my mortgage on it.

I hope that your mortgage is not tied up with Gigg Lane?

 

[Raymondo316]

I know people shit all over the Conference/National League but they would of never allowed this is drag on like it has.

At the AGM in June/July they would of asked for proof from these teams that they had the money to complete the season, if not they would kick them out......no messing about.

 

[Bartonyellow]

Let's be honest if bury and Bolton come out of this some how.. Lesson's will not be learnt and it will happen again to some other club.
There are too many Shithouse owners looking at clubs as a cash cow.
Its the same in business. Companies going under every single day.
Thr efl cannot vet them all.
However this dick smurf or whatever he is called sounds a right bell end and should be avoided.

 

[T.A]

I know people shit all over the Conference/National League but they would of never allowed this is drag on like it has.

At the AGM in June/July they would of asked for proof from these teams that they had the money to complete the season, if not they would kick them out......no messing about.

This is the point, Bury, Bolton, Blackpool, Charlton and Coventry fans have all shouted how utter shit the EFL are. All summer the EFL came out with the same line " we are monitoring the situation" they only decided to do something days before the season was due to start and it leaves us with where we are today. A joke of a league.

Until it happens to your club you wont realise how useless they are.

 

[Bartonyellow]

Has anyone officially contacted the fa to look at a phoenix club if the unthinkable happens?
And if so what step would it be?
Is there a Bury supporters group taking a lead on this and looking for shareholders?
And a ground?
Or could gigg Lane be used?

 

[T.A]

Has anyone officially contacted the fa to look at a phoenix club if the unthinkable happens?
And if so what step would it be?
Is there a Bury supporters group taking a lead on this and looking for shareholders?
And a ground?
Or could gigg Lane be used?

Theres a private thread about a phoenix club on our forum. I havent joined yet and probably wont until i know whats going on with this first.

Im guessing Gigg could be used in theory but they would have to speak to the Mortgage company.

 

[Camborne Gills]

The whole thing is tragic imho. If they were less concerned than sucking up to the PL with the whateverthefuck the JPT is called this year, the EFL might actually give a shit for 2 historical clubs, rather than let them stew in their own shite. Rant over!!!!

 

[Meadow]

As Raymondo316 says above, the Conference/National League or whatever wouldn't stand for this nonsense. The EFL have a history of washing their hands of the situation and leaving it to the National League to deal with it. Boston, Scarborough, Chester to name but a few.

 

[PuB]

According to the bbc this morning there are 4 offers on the table, one of which Dale favours.

 

[AdamStag]

I do hope they sort it ASAP.

The league are hopeless in fb is regard, fudging decisions time in time out.

If the evidence is found the model is sustainable Chuck them out if that’s before the next games cancelled.

However, I do also see why you’d do everything in your power to resolve the issue before coming to this conclusion - bury would come back in the northern premier league at best - should genuine decent and loyal fans pay that price because of this guy? I thought it was a good deal to go down to the conference to get rid of Haslam but this is a completely different animal.

 

[Pablosammy]

According to the bbc this morning there are 4 offers on the table, one of which Dale favours.

Probably for the reason it would pay him his imaginary debt back and he could walk away in serious profit.

I hope the club survives for (most of) the fans.

I hope it burns into nothingness to spite Dale.

 

[Luke Imp]

The gist of that appears to be that Dale himself is one of Bury's creditors. I believe the money he 'invested' in the club was actually a loan from one of his other companies which he has already taken back God knows how much against but that he can now demand any potential buyer for the club pays him back in full for. Now the club is going under because he didn't pay staff and creditors, an action he will have known fine well would result in a winding-up order being filed.

If Bury are kicked out of the football league then liquidation seems inevitable because they have huge debts and will be unable to trade for at least a year. The creditors can only force them into administration through the courts if there is a chance that the company can be saved as a going-concern and an administrator could get the creditors a better deal. If Bury are expelled then that puts paid to any hope for it as a going concern so any administrator would just do what Dale is proposing to do anyway and liquidate the club. Even at that point he shouldn't be allowed to do it himself but he will be because there is no solid proof that he will be dishonest.

As has already been pointed out, what Dale does, buying companies in order to force them into debt and liquidate them, keeping a share of the assets for himself or knowingly paying off creditors that happen to be owned by him isn't legal; but it has to be proven those were his intentions and he keeps getting away with it because it's not too hard to make sure there are no records conclusively proving this. The fact he does it time and time again is not considered proof enough.

So the club gets liquidated. It's a voluntary liquidation so Dale gets to do it how he likes with no real oversight, he just has to follow a certain procedure but gets to keep his own 'records' that prove that procedure was correctly followed. Dale's loan is likely secured on Gigg Lane, the club's only real assett (a lot of clubs have loans secured on their stadia), which would make him one of the top creditors needing paid. I imagine football creditors still come first but he can sell the stadium then (most likely to another company he owns) for an amount that is just about enough to pay off the football creditors, a little bit to himself; probably nothing to any other creditor, staff are supposed to come next but he can just hold his hands up at that point and say, the company has been totally liquidated, all assets have been sold, football and secured creditors have been paid, there's nothing left.

What we're left with is no club, Gigg Lane in the hands of a property developer and Steve Dale, having paid a pound and invested a million, leaving with his million pound investment returned to him and ownership of Gigg Lane.

Sounds like that to me (I'm no financial expert, mind).

Seems daft to me that it's illegal to force a business into liquidation yet it's perfectly legal for someone to be able to sit back and wait for it to go in to liquidation and show no signs of trying to rescue it.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1164797520230244354

 

[WhiteRussian]

Wasn't Bury owned by the fans at some point then they sold it? Begs the reason why if true. None of this would have happened, would it?

 

[UTS]

Wasn't Bury owned by the fans at some point then they sold it? Begs the reason why if true. None of this would have happened, would it?

This has been done to death on our forum and is the reason why in my opinion our so called supporters trust (Forever Bury) isn’t fit for purpose.

They gave up their valuable shares for a seat on the board... an exclusive organisation who are only in it for themselves. Now they get an opportunity for increased membership they start acting on behalf of the fans. Shithouses.