The Coalition of Expensive Chaos

[Abertawe]

But don't you run the risk of people claiming rape in order to get an abortion? Surely you'd need it to be proved to avoid that?

I'm more lenient - if there are serious misgivings about the life that baby will come into (whether physical or social) then I'd be for abortion.

Not enough time for it to go to court etc. If found to be lying then it's a murder charge, see how they like them apples.

 

[Aber gas]

Bunch of men pontificating on when and how women should be allowed an abortion. Fml

 

[Abertawe]

Bunch of men pontificating on when and how women should be allowed an abortion. Fml

Do you not value human life or something?

 

[Techno Natch]

More concerning is that a woman will have to report the rape against her will purely to have access to an abortion. Women don't report rapes for all sorts of reasons.

 

[Abertawe]

More concerning is that a woman will have to report the rape against her will purely to have access to an abortion. Women don't report rapes for all sorts of reasons.

Well that ain't exactly a positive for women empowerment. A hush hush culture is all kinds of wrong.

 

[Pliny Harris]

The conviction rate for REPORTED rapes is 7.5%.

Even if that figure were 99% then your proposition would be very fallible.

7.5%.

 

[Abertawe]

The conviction rate for REPORTED rapes is 7.5%.

Even if that figure were 99% then your proposition would be very fallible.

7.5%.

You're on very ropey ground if you're suggesting trials that don't lead to a conviction automatically dictates the woman is lying.

 

[Techno Natch]

]

Well that ain't exactly a positive for women empowerment. A hush hush culture is all kinds of wrong.

It's not about hush hush. It's empowering for a woman to be supported to report it if she feels able to. Not because it's the only way she can have an abortion. I can't tell anyone to report it crime it has to be their choice and they can't be coerced.

On top of that you only have to look at the black market for abortions to see what the alternative is.

 

[Abertawe]

]


It's not about hush hush. It's empowering for a woman to be supported to report it if she feels able to. Not because it's the only way she can have an abortion. I can't tell anyone to report it crime it has to be their choice and they can't be coerced.

On top of that you only have to look at the black market for abortions to see what the alternative is.

I can only echo what Aber g said above.

So a woman doesn't report and allows for the potential of another woman to suffer the same fate? That's damaging to women. As I say hush hush is all kinds of wrong. What possible reason could there be for not reporting a rape? Shame is not a reason. That is keeping our women in chains.

As for Aber G's point it's codswallop all respects to him. Men make up this world as much as women. Gender doesn't diminish ones right to wish for the sanctity of life to be respected and nor do you have to be a woman to 'understand'. Morning after pill, johnny's, implants. We're in an age where getting accidentally knocked up or having an unwanted pregnancy can be avoided to almost an guaranteed degree.

The risks of a black market developing is not a reason to allow for the murder of life by official means either. A murder charge for anyone found to be involved in that business would soon sort that shit out.

 

[TheMinsterman]

When the parties who are so against abortion start to give more of a shit what happens to the kid once it's spat out into the world and isn't fortunate enough to end up in a loving stable family who don't need any support from the state I'll start to take their total devotion to the sanctity of life more seriously.

 

[Abertawe]

When the parties who are so against abortion start to give more of a shit what happens to the kid once it's spat out into the world and isn't fortunate enough to end up in a loving stable family who don't need any support from the state I'll start to take their total devotion to the sanctity of life more seriously.

That's not a reason to encourage abortion though is it? Fix the issue you highlight over murder I say.

 

[TheMinsterman]

That's not a reason to encourage abortion though is it? Fix the issue you highlight over murder I say.

In what way do we "encourage" abortion? Providing it as an option isn't the same as encouraging women to do it.

 

[smat]

When the parties who are so against abortion start to give more of a shit what happens to the kid once it's spat out into the world and isn't fortunate enough to end up in a loving stable family who don't need any support from the state I'll start to take their total devotion to the sanctity of life more seriously.

 

[Abertawe]

In what way do we "encourage" abortion? Providing it as an option isn't the same as encouraging women to do it.

I think we're playing silly beggers if we are to pretend the current system isn't carte blanche to have an abortion as and when you want.

I must say I'm quite surprised this forum seems to be universally in favour of murder although I've not really read a coherent argument as to why. The ancient scriptures are universal that abortion is a no-no (some leeway is given for threat to life) whether that be Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Jainism, Taoism et al. What do you guys know that everyone else is missing?

Also what about this ageing population crisis? Abortion on a whim isn't exactly gonna help that like is it.

 

[TheMinsterman]

I think we're playing silly beggers if we are to pretend the current system isn't carte blanche to have an abortion as and when you want.

I must say I'm quite surprised this forum seems to be universally in favour of murder although I've not really read a coherent argument as to why. The ancient scriptures are universal that abortion is a no-no (some leeway is given for threat to life) whether that be Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Jainism, Taoism et al. What do you guys know that everyone else is missing?

Also what about this ageing population crisis? Abortion on a whim isn't exactly gonna help that like is it.

For clarification Aber, my ex partner was raped and had to have an abortion (nobody believed her, her own family called her a slut), the experience left her with PTSD and she did not report her abuser either, so my views about it all come from listening to somebody whose gone through it pour their heart out to me, I'm quite happy to admit it may lead me to have a bias.

 

[shane]

The ancient scriptures are universal that abortion is a no-no (some leeway is given for threat to life) whether that be Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Jainism, Taoism et al. What do you guys know that everyone else is missing?

I think religion is bullshit.

 

[Abertawe]

I think religion is bullshit.

So where does life come from?

 

[shane]

So where does life come from?

Do you want me to say God. Is that it?

 

[Abertawe]

Do you want me to say God. Is that it?

You can say whatever you like dude.

 

[shane]

You can say whatever you like dude.

I was christened, received communion and was confirmed but I don't believe in God. I don't look down on those who do but its not for me. Abortion is a tragedy but I don't believe there is a valid reason to tell a woman she can't have one.

Is yours a purely religious stance?

 

[Abertawe]

I was christened, received communion and was confirmed but I don't believe in God. I don't look down on those who do but its not for me. Abortion is a tragedy but I don't believe there is a valid reason to tell a woman she can't have one.

Is yours a purely religious stance?

A sanctity of life stance. I don't believe a woman has the right to terminate. Whilst I don't subscribe to any one belief system, all religions are more or less unanimous on this topic which I do think speaks volumes. If even today we're unable replicate or explain how ancient civilisations achieved what they did (Pyramids for example) then it's a bit arrogant to just assume they're all wrong when we can't even explain the source of life. If we can't explain the source of life and the soul what can possibly give us the right to end it?

 

[shane]

A sanctity of life stance. I don't believe a woman has the right to terminate. Whilst I don't subscribe to any one belief system, all religions are more or less unanimous on this topic which I do think speaks volumes. If even today we're unable replicate or explain how ancient civilisations achieved what they did (Pyramids for example) then it's a bit arrogant to just assume they're all wrong when we can't even explain the source of life. If we can't explain the source of life and the soul what can possibly give us the right to end it?

I don't buy any of that.

If you genuinely stood for a "sanctity of life" stance, you wouldn't concede to rape related abortions. Regardless of the cause, thats a life (in your eyes) being destroyed.

I don't want to get into a God vs Evolution debate but there is a pretty strong argument to explain what the source of life.

Finally, "if it was good enough for them" isn't a good enough argument for anything.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

A sanctity of life stance. I don't believe a woman has the right to terminate. Whilst I don't subscribe to any one belief system, all religions are more or less unanimous on this topic which I do think speaks volumes. If even today we're unable replicate or explain how ancient civilisations achieved what they did (Pyramids for example) then it's a bit arrogant to just assume they're all wrong when we can't even explain the source of life. If we can't explain the source of life and the soul what can possibly give us the right to end it?

Pretty sure we'd be able to build a pyramid if we set our minds to it...

 

[Abertawe]

Pretty sure we'd be able to build a pyramid if we set our minds to it...

We've tried and failed. Well except for the Stockport CO-OP. Big up Stockport.

 

[Abertawe]

I don't buy any of that.

If you genuinely stood for a "sanctity of life" stance, you wouldn't concede to rape related abortions. Regardless of the cause, thats a life (in your eyes) being destroyed.

I don't want to get into a God vs Evolution debate but there is a pretty strong argument to explain what the source of life.

Finally, "if it was good enough for them" isn't a good enough argument for anything.

Nah that's devil life if the woman doesn't want it.

If you can explain life, what powers the soul and where it all comes from feel free to tell me.

 

[shane]

Nah that's devil life if the woman doesn't want it.

If you can explain life, what powers the soul and where it all comes from feel free to tell me.

Thats a shame. You're normally a pretty good poster.

 

[Abertawe]

Thats a shame. You're normally a pretty good poster.

I just don't see why a Woman should have to give birth to a child made from rape if she doesn't want to.

 

[Pliny Harris]

You're on very ropey ground if you're suggesting trials that don't lead to a conviction automatically dictates the woman is lying.

That's more or less the opposite of what I'm suggesting.

 

[Abertawe]

That's more or less the opposite of what I'm suggesting.

Well I didn't imply that not achieving a conviction would deem the woman a liar so I'm not sure why you brought it up then tbh.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Thats a shame. You're normally a pretty good poster.

He's taking the piss.