The Future of England 2.0

Liam_SWFC

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Didn't watch the game was watching the African Cup Of nations, but according to the report more defensive mistakes.:hb:
 

Chris FGR

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Lingard's shit, so shouldn't even be any question whether Mount or Maddison get in ahead of him.

Great to see Mings in there, remember him playing for Chippenham. His dad Adie well known on the local football scene, played for us for a bit.
 

Liam_SWFC

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The centre back options apart from Harry Maguire and Gomez are a bit meh aren't they? Surprised no Walker but we're extremely well stocked at right back. Lingard shouldn't have made the cut for me done not a lot for a good while now, more than enough in there though to get two comfortable wins against Bulgaria and Kosovo.
 

markwwfc1992

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Shame Southgate won't look at Coady because we play 3 at the back instead of his preferred 4. Statistically the best English CB behind only Maguire last season.
 

Chris FGR

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I think it's a real shame Vardy has retired, Southgate should be doing everything to talk him into coming back, the lads electric and absolutely on fire this season. Far better then Rashford or Wilson at this point imo. He's capable of terrorising defences and can actually finish consistently.
 

Skinner

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I think it's a real shame Vardy has retired, Southgate should be doing everything to talk him into coming back, the lads electric and absolutely on fire this season. Far better then Rashford or Wilson at this point imo. He's capable of terrorising defences and can actually finish consistently.
Vardy retired to prolong his own career, and we're not desperate in the striker department. Leave him be.

Class performance in the first half tonight by the way.
 

Super_horns

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Chalk and cheese in attack and defence !

What a strange game - very open and defences all over the place .
 

JJ1532

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I do find it odd that people talk about England coming undone against 'quality' international sides when they see the defensive display last night.

What quality international sides exactly?

Nobody is quality anymore, the French aside. Germany aren't what they were, look how they huffed and puffed past Northern Ireland the other day plus got rolled over the Dutch. Neither are Spain. Do people forget how poor they both were in the last World Cup? When Germany were knocked out in the groups by South Korea and Spain only just made it into the knockouts by drawing with Morocco?

Belgium, a side with talent but no cohesion? Brazil, who are deeply flawed and shadow of what they were 15 years ago. Argentina, who look average even with Messi. Portugal, see Argentina but swap Messi for Ronaldo. Holland look decent admittedly.

I get the unease at seeing England make basic mistakes against Kosovo. But to me, the time to judge them is Euro 2020. They are going to breeze through the rest of their qualifiers.

But next summer will really show how good they are. Because another tournament embarrassment like 2016 or a limp exit in the knockouts will maybe show 2018 was a fluke and because of an easy route to the semi-finals. If will also show if Southgate is a fraud or the real deal. I have my doubts, but we'll see.

People forget that France drew 0-0 at home to Luxembourg in September 2017. 10 months later, they were lifting the World Cup. Don't write this England team off before they've had a chance to build on 2018.
 

Chris FGR

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I would say France and Belgium are quality, Belgium beat us fairly easily twice at the World Cup and have breezed through qualifying. Portugal won the Nations League and aren't all about Ronaldo anymore, some real class in that side especially in midfield. The Dutch have improved massively in the last couple of years, they play some great stuff and have imo the best CB pairing in the World

Spain, Italy and Germany are all rebuilding but wouldn't write them off, all have got some top young talent coming through.

We look a very good side going forward, reckon we can cause any team problems, think we're probably in that group just below France, Begium and Portugal when it comes to the favourites to win it. Can definitely see us making the semi's, and then with home advantage who knows.

Think it's going to be a very decent tournament.
 

Super_horns

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Yes agreed - there was probably a bit of complacent play or easing off in the 2nd half .

Hopefully they'd be more focused against the top terms which with our attacking play we are one of them .

Mistakes will always happen if you keep trying to play out from the back .

I'd say Belguim look the best team and did show tournament form in Russia to suggest they can do in the Euros .

France seem to get the job fine like Spain without being amazing.

Dutch are the team to watch ATM.
 

Chris FGR

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Would have liked to have seen Maddison get a game. Think we need someone like him against tougher opposition. Yesterday it was easy to find space, Kosovo were wide open, won't be as easy to create chances without much creativity behind the front 3, unless we're going for the Liverpool approach.
 

GodsGift

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I know Foden is hardly playing for City but I wish Southgate would just pick him. He did it with Hudson-Odoi so why not Foden? He's the type of player we're crying out for in midfield.
 

Ebeneezer Goode

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I think the FA are just trying to send a message about playing time. They didn't give Hudson-Odoi the call until Sarri started playing him. I don't like it though, he's the best natural #8 we have in my opinion. Seeing Delph in there makes me wonder whether he's going to try a experiment with a 4-2-3-1 to accommodate Maddison though.
 

markwwfc1992

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Can't wait for the fraud Southgate to finally get sacked. Living off beating a few minnowers in the WC last year.

Coady must be bewildered to why he can't make a squad ahead of the likes of Michael Keane every month. If we're going down the 'wanting 4 at the back route' then Tarkowski is much better, Tomori has has a great start to the season too and should be ahead of Keane. There are players in the Championship more deserving of a place in the squad than some of these. Wasn't Southgate supposed to be known for picking players based on current form?
 

Super_horns

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I am not sure anyone in that defence save Trippier could say they are in form and it showed .

Our attack didn't get going so the ropey back line was exposed more .
 

Ebeneezer Goode

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The first half was mostly down to that Rice-Henderson double pivot. To me Southgate just proves over and over again that he doesn't understand the qualities needed for the midfield roles in his system. To expect Henderson of all people to receive the ball with his back to the opposition, turn, and then pass through the lines was lunacy, especially when Southgate doesn't appear to coach midfield rotation. That lesson should have been learned years ago, even Klopp doesn't trust him as a sitting midfielder any more.

I think as a former defender Southgate looks at the midfield, especially the holding position(s), as nothing more than a screen for the back four. He seems to look at progressing the ball through the thirds as something mundane and pedestrian, as if all of his midfielders at this level can do it, and what he needs to worry about is having the legs in the centre to win the ball back when we inevitably lose it. The correlation between midfielders who aren't press-resistant, the frequency with which we lose the ball, and the numbers of chances we give away on the counter seems lost on him.

He wants to play progressive possession football but then populates the starting XI with players that can't do it. I don't care that Gomez isn't getting game time, he's the best partner to Maguire in the squad. I don't care that Foden can't get in front of the Silva's or De Bruyne, he's the best #8.5 we have. And I don't care that Winks isn't a man mountain, he's the best holding player for this system we have. The bigger problem might be Pickford. He can't play with his feet, and the only English keeper that can (or could) - Angus Gunn - seems to have had it coached out of him, and isn't in great form in any case.

I don't think we need to throw the baby out with the bathwater though. It's surely better to try and get someone in to help Southgate with his weaknesses than take a punt on someone new. We can re-evaluate after the Euros.
 

Super_horns

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Shame the match has been overshadowed by the events off the pitch .

Before with one fan dying and all this racist abuse which surely cannot be denied by the Bulgarians.

Good England performance so far although Bulgaria have been poor .
 

Liam_SWFC

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The punishment will be pathetic, had we walked off the pitch we would no doubt have suffered the harsher reprimand.

Good bounce back performance from England that, much prefer the 4-3-3 to the 4-2-3-1, don't want to see Rice and Henderson in the same midfield again. Bulgaria were hideously poor but we did what we had to do and could have had more than the 6, pretty much there now for the Euros. Apart from the result in Prague I'd say it's been quite an impressive qualification, the teams aren't anything above C standard that we've played but in previous campaigns we'd be scraping through these games by the odd goal, we've pasted pretty much all of them.
 

blademan89

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Give them a 10k fine and close off 500 seats for their next match, that'll teach em'...
It's such a hard situation to punish, what about the thousands and thousands of innocent football fans who go and do nothing wrong then their ground gets shut and they cant go, obviously these countries arent as advanced as here where last night with those pictures wed be picked out and banned forever. And also I believe Bulgaria are possibly going to have a nations league playoff chance, how Is it fair to deny their players that for something they haven't done, if there is gonna be any punishment, individuals need picking out like what happens here. Say I met you mark at an england game and I started acting a c*** being racist, should you be punished for it by not being able to go, or the team be punished? Neither should, only me, They had enough warning last night yet still carried on like that, they obviously dont care what happens do they.
 

Ebeneezer Goode

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We need some perspective. As much as they need to understand where we're coming from we have to understand where they're coming from. We approach racial slurs with a kind of moral certitude that they're the harbingers of societal downfall, but for a country that doesn't have a history of colonialism, ideological racism and literally selling black people as slaves it's not that hard to see why they might view mocking someone's racial background not too dissimilarly from mocking their nationality, or the city they're from. That is the argument I've heard lots of times from these kinds of fans.

I doubt very much that this stuff is motivated by racial hatred for the most part, it's just the product of a society that sees things a bit differently than we do. And ultimately that's what this kind of racism is, a societal issue not a football issue. All UEFA can do it try and protect the players, it's not their job to change Bulgarian society, and certainly not ours either. I know people say that fines don't work, but maybe if the figures involved weren't so pitiful they actually could. In the end it's usually money that makes the difference.
 

The Jovial Forester

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I doubt very much that this stuff is motivated by racial hatred for the most part, it's just the product of a society that sees things a bit differently than we do
It was led by actual organised fascists (well, fascist cosplayers) from one of the ultra mobs by all accounts, leave the sociology out of it.
 

blademan89

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We need some perspective. As much as they need to understand where we're coming from we have to understand where they're coming from. We approach racial slurs with a kind of moral certitude that they're the harbingers of societal downfall, but for a country that doesn't have a history of colonialism, ideological racism and literally selling black people as slaves it's not that hard to see why they might view mocking someone's racial background not too dissimilarly from mocking their nationality, or the city they're from. That is the argument I've heard lots of times from these kinds of fans.

I doubt very much that this stuff is motivated by racial hatred for the most part, it's just the product of a society that sees things a bit differently than we do. And ultimately that's what this kind of racism is, a societal issue not a football issue. All UEFA can do it try and protect the players, it's not their job to change Bulgarian society, and certainly not ours either. I know people say that fines don't work, but maybe if the figures involved weren't so pitiful they actually could. In the end it's usually money that makes the difference.
Closing a stadium in itself is a huge fine as obviously means no matchday income at all, obviously if a big country got a huge fine it wouldnt matter but cant see a Montenegro or bulgaria affording to cough up millions and millions. It's down to each individual nation to sort their own problems out whatever they may be, maybe the threat of elimination from tournaments would do that but most likely probably not as there will always be a few who dont care and will still get into the stadiums.
 

blademan89

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They've arrested 4 of their fans for racism. On the other issue in Sofia about the england fan dying sounds very very suspicious to me, got taken to hospital, then died on his way to the police station, sounds like plod have had a big part in his death to me, obviously that will never be proven.
 

Super_horns

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Looks like there was some left overs from the Liverpool City game .

Sterling been left out of the England squad for the next game after a bust up with Gomez last night .

Guess Southgate wanted to make a point about a united squad ?

In the past this incident would have been covered by the FA saying Sterling had a knock .
 

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