The great Poppy debate..

[Aber gas]

Former members of the armed forces are more likely to suffer from mental health issues and homelessness. I'm sure a blimming poppy on the England kit will solve everything. Jesus wept.

The way a society treats its veterans is usually a good indictator of that society's moral fortitude. We fail this test quite spectacularly. It's sad that people seem not to give a shit about this but then generate incandescent rage over a poppy. I'm fucking done.

 

[JimJams]

Jesus wept.

Don't start bringing him into it as well.

 

[Leo]

The way a society treats its veterans is usually a good indictator of that society's moral fortitude. We fail this test quite spectacularly. It's sad that people seem not to give a shit about this but then generate incandescent rage over a poppy. I'm fucking done.

I think people do give a shit....that's why the public are so generous when it comes to donations given to the poppy appeal, the Help for heroes appeal and one for the Erskine care homes for veterans. Perhaps if FIFA got on other matters instead of focusing on a small emblem of respect on a football shirt nobody would be no need for any argument.

 

[Look Out There Are Llamas]

I think people do give a shit....that's why the public are so generous when it comes to donations given to the poppy appeal, the Help for heroes appeal and one for the Erskine care homes for veterans. Perhaps if FIFA got on other matters instead of focusing on a small emblem of respect on a football shirt nobody would be no need for any argument.

"This year, The Royal British Legion is asking the nation to Rethink Remembrance by recognising the sacrifices made not just by the Armed Forces of the past, but by today’s generation too.

For many people, Remembrance is associated with the fallen of the First and Second World Wars. While we will always remember them, the Legion wants to raise awareness of a new generation of veterans and Service personnel that need our support."

So that's essentially covering recent veterans from Iraq, Afghanistan etc. I would therefore deem that to be political. Thus I make FIFA right with their judgement.

 

[AnimoEtFide]

Maybe, just maybe, the problem is with us rather than FIFA? Every other member (including us until now) has managed to acquiesce in not putting symbols on their shirts despite nearly all of them (I imagine) having similar remembrance periods, no doubt on the understanding that to start doing so would open a whole can of worms irrespective of the justice or otherwise of their own particular case. Yet our FA's now stumble on demanding to be an exception to the rule?

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

In a fresh TWIST it appears that Ireland wore shirts commemorating the Easter Rising earlier in the year which does actually seem more overtly political. To be honest, whilst I tend to think that this is the sort of thing that FIFA ought to be able to accommodate I do think the idea of having no political, religious or commercial messages on shirts is a very good general principle to adhere to. The PM denouncing it as an outrage does rather make it looks as though we've LOST THE PLOT a bit.

 

[Smudge]

That's the rule yeah. So are you saying the examples I cited before aren't political? Coz the problem is finding a criteria for determining what symbols are and aren't political. And the 'let people decide for themselves' approach doesn't really address that.

I agree with all this. Most sports governing bodies dont allow any form of religious/ political imagery, for obvious reasons. They are international events, and sport is supposed to unite, not divide us. Bit idealistic, but it's true. The point is, most things in isolation are not political or offensive, but in context, they can take on a whole new meaning. The earlier post that pointed out for example how the swastika was adopted by the Nazis, and these days means something very different to what it meant for thousands of years. Likewise for example, Barcelona were fined last year for multiple displaying of the Catalan flag. A Catalan club waving Catalan flags isnt really all that political, but at the time, there was tension in Spain over the possibility of Catalonia pushing for independence, so I can understand why at that time especially, it was seen as a political statement.

Ive been arguing with my dad about this the last few days. First of all because he's not content with spouting off about James McClean every. Single. Year. Now this has happened, and he just will not see that the poppy is being politicised. I suggested to him that if it isnt political, then why wont James McClean wear one? His answer was that he is making it political by NOT wearing one. That to me proves the point, is it only political if we dont all do as we're told and wear one? It's a charity, a mark of respect, yes, but as long as it represents all wars and conflicts, that includes current ones. It is also a choice, and it is a person's choice if they want to donate or wear a poppy or not. For all those who bang about all the people who died for your freedom, they also died for your freedom to do what you want, and that includes choosing to wear one or not.

What exactly does sticking one on a football shirt do anyway? Ever since the odd team started doing this a few years ago, everyone else has been shamed into it, to the extent the world is now 'outraged' because England and Scotland cant wear one. The fact the Premier League and EFL will have a full 2 weeks of teams wearing it on their shirts isnt enough anymore. Its not like having a poppy on your shirts causes magical donation money to appear in the RBL's tins does it? If they FA and all the rest of them care that much, give a donation on their behalf. Id say that says you care a bit more than putting a picture on a millionaire's top.

 

[TomPNE94]

That is their opinion and they are entitled to it. Imo it definitely is NOT, an opinion to which I am entitled. It is mark of respect,...not a fucking fashion statement! As to why it is an issue all of a sudden ? Why do FIFA see it as an issue....I'm sure it has more important in-house things to be getting on with like making sure there are no more thieves & corrupt bastards in its organisation instead of flexing its muscles simply because it can.

They haven't. This ruling was 5 years ago and the press have decided to make it a thing again, FIFA haven't said anything.

 

[Madejski]

FA say we're playing with armbands bearing poppies next week.

Prepare for FIFA to give us a points deduction.

 

[Super_horns]

Well a points deduction wouldn't affect Scotland!

As for us - save us having to be embarrassed at the World Cup..

What a sad state of affairs that we could be punished for trying to show respect...

No wonder people think football is out of touch.

 

[mnb089mnb]

This
https://thosewhowillnotbedrowned.wordpress.com/2016/11/02/football-war-and-the-meaning-of-silence/

 

[Benji]

Everyone's afraid to say it because it's not exactly politcally correct, but I think any football players that don't wear a poppy should be shot at by Nazis.

 

[AnimoEtFide]

Everyone's afraid to say it because it's not exactly politcally correct, but I think any football players that don't wear a poppy should be shot at by Nazis.

Well said. You've got my vote in the UKIP leadership election.

 

[Leo]

"This year, The Royal British Legion is asking the nation to Rethink Remembrance by recognising the sacrifices made not just by the Armed Forces of the past, but by today’s generation too.

For many people, Remembrance is associated with the fallen of the First and Second World Wars. While we will always remember them, the Legion wants to raise awareness of a new generation of veterans and Service personnel that need our support."

So that's essentially covering recent veterans from Iraq, Afghanistan etc. I would therefore deem that to be political. Thus I make FIFA right with their judgement.

I am well aware of the recognising sacrifices not just by AF's of the past but from other conflicts. It has been like that for some time now & NOT just this year. You think it's political & FIFA's correct....no probs with that as it's your opinion...MY opinion that it is NOT a political symbol & FIFA is wrong!

 

[Leo]

They haven't. This ruling was 5 years ago and the press have decided to make it a thing again, FIFA haven't said anything.

I don't understand your...'They haven't' comment. As in they haven't what ?
The FA & SFA made it known, out of respect to FIFA I presume, that they both wished to wear shirts bearing the poppy. FIFA replied that they could not do so.

 

[mnb089mnb]

The law the FAs are intending to break was laid out by IFAB. "The basic compulsory equipment must not contain any political, religious or personal statements."

The "home nations" have privileged status on IFAB. Why aren't the FAs being criticized for helping create this law in the first place?

 

[mnb089mnb]

 

[JimJams]

Shit idea.

 

[TomPNE94]

Lol what a gimp

 

[Smudge]

It'd probably be more exciting than most England games.

 

[Stevencc]

I'd like to see it purely to hear the commentators struggling.

 

[AnimoEtFide]

Bet Rooney would still fuck it up by letting rip a large guff.

 

[mnb089mnb]

Football Associations insisting their sides wear poppies really is political correctness gone mad.

 

[Smudge]

Given this whole debate, this is interesting. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37867436

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

A ban on "political symbols" is total nonsense. Like, what are national flags if not political symbols. And who is FIFA to act as an arbiter of what is and isn't political.

Massively fucking dodgy for Wales to insist on wearing a poppy against Serbia, given the 500-5,000 Serb civilians and 1,000 combatants who died in the NATO bombing campaign in 1999 though. Like, common sense should rule that out.

 

[Leo]

A ban on "political symbols" is total nonsense. Like, what are national flags if not political symbols. And who is FIFA to act as an arbiter of what is and isn't political.

Massively fucking dodgy for Wales to insist on wearing a poppy against Serbia, given the 500-5,000 Serb civilians and 1,000 combatants who died in the NATO bombing campaign in 1999 though. Like, common sense should rule that out.

That......

 

[SALTIRE]

At Anfield today.

 

[JimJams]

That must have took fucking ages to grow.

Or are they really small soldiers?

 

[slaphead]

Saw that, excellent.

 

[SALTIRE]