If you lived in Scotland would you vote for the SNP?

[Red]

Would you?

 

[SUTSS]

Ultimately they are nationalists and that would stop me voting for them.

 

[SALTIRE]

I do, I have and I am, as are all my family.

 

[Red]

I'm presuming that if they weren't you probably would vote for them SUTTS? Perhaps I'm wrong. I'd imagine a lot of people would vote for them were they not nationalists.

 

[SUTSS]

Perhaps. I'd still have some reservations but then there isn't a party that I don't have them about. I haven't read their policies properly (as there isn't really a point in me doing so) just seen soundbites but I have been impressed with Sturgeon.

 

[TheArtfulDodger]

Yes. They seem to be a genuinely credible social-democratic party, a party like that in the North of England would do very well.

 

[Cheese & Biscuits]

Ultimately they are nationalists and that would stop me voting for them.

Pretty much this. Although they are very much aligned with Labour they want independence so it'd be a no from me.

I echo that Sturgeon has won me over though. Salmond stepping down is probably the best thing that could have happened to them.

 

[Captain Scumbag]

I have various political disagreements with them – they're too statist, too laissez-faire on immigration, too keen on the EU (hilarious given all their rhetoric about wanting independence), etc. – but my dislike of them is ultimately quite an emotional thing. I feel British. I see the United Kingdom as my country. And while I don't doubt there are some decent, competent and well-meaning sorts among the SNP 's ranks, they're still a party whose raison d'être is to break up my country. I could never vote for them because of that.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Yes. They seem to be a genuinely credible social-democratic party, [...]

Which would last for approximately five minutes after independence, assuming Scots would ever vote for it.

 

[Pliny Harris]

I think I might. Again I'm impressed by Sturgeon, enough so to entertain Scotland annexing Halifax, the wider area of Calderdale and a few local golf clubs and building a motorway to connect it all with the mainland. I'm not sure how the main subject of independence would sit with me even if I were Scotch though tbh. It's very telling how the Highlands and northern isles are less taken by being run from Edinburgh instead of London.

 

[Alty]

I'd consider it.

I've always been baffled by the idea that nationalism is an inherently bad thing too, btw.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

If I were in Scotland I may get suckered in with all the patriotic clap-trap, but I think Scots are complete and utter mugs and suckers at the moment and it'll be interesting their views in a years time,

the reality of following the SNP less than a year ago would've meant a collapsed country, lots of cuts, no money and a begging bowl to the current Tory Government..............which would have been quite amusing. And all that because the SNP based their entire campaign on romantic dreams, far fetched hopes and blatant lies.

and how has the reaction been up in Scotland......well to be suckered in yet again by romantic dreams, far fetched hopes and blatant lies...........oh well.

I personally think a big reason SNP has grown the last 6 months in popularity is people up there do firmly believe if they get 40 odd seats they can have Westminster by the b*llocks and can dominate and control how a Labour government will be ran and that will be ran in their interests.

Me thinks it won't take long for reality to kick in that in a Coalition it is the smaller party gets 'grabbed by the b*llocks' and has to make concessions and back some things they won't want to in order to make it work..........a part with 250 odd MP's isn't going to go cap in hand to one with 50. It'[s OK SNP just assuming if they do not get their way they can allow Westminster to fall into a mess by never voting anything in, but then let the media both sides of border and all parties destroy them in public and see where it goes.

Miliband could've destroyed the SNP the other week ont he debate, he got the question he needed, that about coalitiions and had he pressed Sturgeon on whether she'd like the Lib Dems back down on say opposing Trident, allow modest privatization of the NHS, This Universal Credit...SNP want it ended right away, Labour have not decided yet.............it is no where near as bad as the Lib Dem to Tory policies, but I just get view SNP don't know this will have to be removed.

 

[Alty]

The SNP are in danger of over-promising, which in itself raises some credibility issues, but they're not in the same position as the LDs. Anything they can't achieve once they've made an informal pact (or whatever they're going to do) they can just blame on the fact they're locked into a UK with a different political outlook. In a sense it's win-win. If they get what they want it's seen as delivering for their voters. If they don't, it strengthens the argument for independence.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

that won't work when Labour and conservative start to whack the blame on them for every single thing that goes wrong.

We'll see, but me thinks these masses in Scotland voting SNP may get a harsh reality come June time.

 

[Modernist]

No, if I lived in scotland I would move to England.

 

[Alty]

that won't work when Labour and conservative start to whack the blame on them for every single thing that goes wrong.

How would they pull that off?? That'd be bonkers even for the Tories.

 

[SUTSS]

I'd consider it.

I've always been baffled by the idea that nationalism is an inherently bad thing too, btw.

My issue with nationalism is pretty simple. They be very definition seek to divide, to create an 'us and them' political narrative, an 'evil' foreigner who doesn't have the best interests of the natives at heart. They emphasis differences and rely on identity politics rather than reasoned argument about what is best for the country or the wider world. For me this is the antithesis of what we should be which is fostering international relations and working together in a supranational manner.

 

[Alty]

My issue with nationalism is pretty simple. They be very definition seek to divide, to create an 'us and them' political narrative, an 'evil' foreigner who doesn't have the best interests of the natives at heart. They emphasis differences and rely on identity politics rather than reasoned argument about what is best for the country or the wider world. For me this is the antithesis of what we should be which is fostering international relations and working together in a supranational manner.

There's an element of us and them about most political ideologies. Including conservatism and socialism. One of the appealing aspects of (civic) nationalism is that it gives everyone a sense of belonging and encourages cooperation in the national interest.

Obviously when nationalism is taken too far it's dangerous. But victims of Pinochet or Stalin can testify to the fact that following free market economics or socialism fanatically is every bit as scary.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

My issue with nationalism is pretty simple. They be very definition seek to divide, to create an 'us and them' political narrative, an 'evil' foreigner who doesn't have the best interests of the natives at heart. They emphasis differences and rely on identity politics rather than reasoned argument about what is best for the country or the wider world. For me this is the antithesis of what we should be which is fostering international relations and working together in a supranational manner.

By definition? That isn't true at all. I would suggest the reason so many nationalist parties behave that way is because in the shadow of what the Nazis did the mainstream doesn't want to touch nationalism with a ten foot barge pole. We've thrown the baby out with the bathwater and surrendered nationalism to the nutters for fear that it's somehow innately or "by definition" a step on the road to fascism.

 

[Red]

I'd agree with that EG, and also add that I don't think wanting to be independent and fostering international relations are always mutually exclusive.

 

[SUTSS]

By definition? That isn't true at all. I would suggest the reason so many nationalist parties behave that way is because in the shadow of what the Nazis did the mainstream doesn't want to touch nationalism with a ten foot barge pole. We've thrown the baby out with the bathwater and surrendered nationalism to the nutters for fear that it's somehow innately or "by definition" a step on the road to fascism.

Yes by definition. In so much as you need an other to distinguish your group from to form a nation, you are creating a division. I never mentioned the Nazis and it is quite clear that there is a huge gulf between civic nationalism and nazism. However any politics that creates an in group and an out group (and Alty is of course right that this isn't exclusively a nationalist trait) makes me feel uncomfortable.

 

[Red]

I don't see wanting Scotland to be independent as trying to create an in and out group. I just see that in terms of the SNP wanting Scotland to be self-governed. I'm not sure that is in any way trying to drive a wedge between the English and Scots.

 

[Captain Scumbag]

^
They don't want real independence, hence their enthusiasm for the EU. They just want a divorce from England. An understandable wish in some respects, but it's a shame more people (especially South of Hadrian's Wall) can't see it for what it is, and/or continue to give the Nats the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Alty]

^
They don't want real independence, hence their enthusiasm for the EU. They just want a divorce from England. An understandable wish in some respects, but it's a shame more people (especially South of Hadrian's Wall) can't see it for what it is, and/or continue to give the Nats the benefit of the doubt.

Not enough people understand the EU to make the connection. There's still a widespread belief that Euroscepticism boils down to xenophobia.

 

[Captain Scumbag]

I hadn't noticed.

 

[SALTIRE]

No, if I lived in scotland I would move to England.

Been to England many times, and I'm always glad to come back home, you can have it mate

 

[Red]

I'd move to Scotland if I could.

 

[Stevencc]

I'd move to Scotland if I could.

Why can't you?

You make it sound like you've been banned from the place

 

[SUTSS]

He has. It was one wild stag do.

 

[Red]

I can't afford to move there..