The Labour Thread

[Ian_Wrexham]

Just out of interest (I'm not even looking for an argument here).

Does anyone actually have any opinions about whether Corbyn bowed sufficiently at the Cenotaph? Is that a thing any actual, real people have any opinion on at all? I don't think I know anyone who does.

Or is it just privately-educated journalists creating nonsense for other privately-educated journalists to argue the toss over, repeatedly, ceaselessly, pointlessly, until, tiring of petabytes of the most inane fucking trivia being beamed into the cosmos, a superior intelligence comes along to destroy the planet and put us all out of our misery?

 

[Christian Slater]

It's astonishing how many people buy into the narrative. Scary, even.

It's another attempt to make him look soft, they even use "pacifist" as an adjective.

I don't usually take note of The Sun, but I thought using the dead to attack a politican was especially vile.

 

[Martino Knockavelli]

 

[Stagat]

You're saying his short bow should have been more protracted?

 

[Veggie Legs]

10/10 for maths punnery Stagat

Just out of interest (I'm not even looking for an argument here).

Does anyone actually have any opinions about whether Corbyn bowed sufficiently at the Cenotaph? Is that a thing any actual, real people have any opinion on at all? I don't think I know anyone who does.

I didn't see any of the coverage, but like you say, I find it hard to believe that anyone watching would think, 'That bloke hasn't bowed as much as some other people have, what a bastard.'

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Tbf I imagine that they'd already half-penned articles about some imagined offence so it was pretty rude of Corbs not to oblige by spunking on some poppy wreaths or something. We should really applaud the endeavour of these brave journos who successfully found another bullshit angle and admire the chutzpah required to accuse anyone else of disrespecting the war dead.

 

[Dave-Vale]

The best part is that Corbyn didn't swan off to an expensive VIP meal straight after. He stuck around and spoke to veterans for a good while, then hopped on the tube to a local service in his own constituency.

The Sun can fuck off.

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/8508460?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics&ir=UK+Politics

"You HAVE to be".

 

[Dave-Vale]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...betraying-britain-6807275?ICID=FB_mirror_main

 

[HertsWolf]

I'm still not sure whether The Sun is pro- or anti-Corbyn.

 

[HertsWolf]

Excellent news.

Nut jobs don't have a place in our society.

Which is why we now require them all to have the letters "MP" after their name.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

I'm still not sure whether The Sun is pro- or anti-Corbyn.

They're probably not sure themselves, far too early in the electoral cycle to commit themselves!

Does Corbyn have a policy on Page 3?

 

[silkyman]

You're saying his short bow should have been more protracted?

 

[AFCB_Mark]

Quite the Corbyn/Labour hooharr rumbling up at the moment in the wake of Paris.

Reportedly branded "a f**king disgrace" by one MP in PLP a meeting last night, after his answer of refusal to a question about whether as PM he'd ever give the order for Police to arm and shoot in the event of a siege situation in this country. The BBC report "Labour MPs loudly banged the tables in agreement when it was suggested to Jeremy Corbyn his remarks about shoot to kill were wrong". Also reported that one MP said Corbyn wouldn't even make 2 years in the job!

The PLP also ask Corybn to avoid a meeting of the Stop The War group next month where he's scheduled as a special speaker, after some controversial tweets from Stop The War in the hours after the attacks, which were since deleted.

Meanwhile Dianne Abbot spent the meeting "writing Christmas cards"

Hilary Benn saving the evening by talking the PLP round with some harder line comments, I thought Benn also spoke very well on the radio this morning talking about his own position regarding defence (again harder than Jezza).

 

[Christian Slater]

The kind of political discourse that makes you proud to be British.

 

[Alty]

Quite the Corbyn/Labour hooharr rumbling up at the moment in the wake of Paris.

Reportedly branded "a f**king disgrace" by one MP in PLP a meeting last night, after his answer of refusal to a question about whether as PM he'd ever give the order for Police to arm and shoot in the event of a siege situation in this country. The BBC report "Labour MPs loudly banged the tables in agreement when it was suggested to Jeremy Corbyn his remarks about shoot to kill were wrong". Also reported that one MP said Corbyn wouldn't even make 2 years in the job!

The PLP also ask Corybn to avoid a meeting of the Stop The War group next month where he's scheduled as a special speaker, after some controversial tweets from Stop The War in the hours after the attacks, which were since deleted.

Meanwhile Dianne Abbot spent the meeting "writing Christmas cards"

Hilary Benn saving the evening by talking the PLP round with some harder line comments, I thought Benn also spoke very well on the radio this morning talking about his own position regarding defence (again harder than Jezza).

Surely he didn't say shoot to kill is NEVER justified? I don't think any sane person believes that.

 

[rudebwoyben]

Surely he didn't say shoot to kill is NEVER justified? I don't think any sane person believes that.

In times like these, a lot of the media can't be bothered to properly look at a nuanced position.
Actually, make that all the time.
Obviously he didn't say that shoot to kill is never justified.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

The actual quotes, to ensure nothing is taken out of context.

“I'm not happy with the shoot-to-kill policy in general. I think that is quite dangerous and I think can often can be counterproductive. I think you have to have security that prevents people firing off weapons where you can."

I admire his idealism in a sense, a bit like his comments about preferably arresting Mohammed Emwazi instead of killing.
But if someone comes with a machine gun and a bomb vest and is prepared to kill himself, I'd love to know what ideas Corbyn proposes to contain that without shooting.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

Here's what he said:

"I'm not happy with the shoot-to-kill policy in general - I think that is quite dangerous and I think can often can be counterproductive. I think you have to have security that prevents people firing off weapons where you can, there are various degrees for doing things as we know. But the idea you end up with a war on the streets is not a good thing."

Largely agree with that - though obviously he doesn't directly define what he's unhappy with, but the same is true of his detractors. I'd rather place similar scrutiny on some of the hysterical demands for bloodletting from the media and some political figures.

Worth pointing out that shoot-to-kill is really ill-defined - ordinarily armed police have the power to use lethal force (i.e. they can shoot to kill) in response to threats to the public (at their discretion or at the behest of a commanding officer). These are SOP for armed officers.

Shoot-to-kill in these circumstances tends to refer to the Kratos Protocol (something that hasn't actually saved anyone from suicide bombers and resulted in the death of Jean Charles de Menezes). That involves officers acting covertly, firing shots to the head, without warning, at suspected suicide bombers. Needless to say, it's an utter disaster of a policy and was shelved post-2005.

 

[mowgli]

Sorry but my view is that if a terrorist is killing people there can only be one outcome and that's their death to protect innocent people from being killed,live by the sword you can expect to die by it.

 

[Freakyteeth]

Front bench rebellion months into party leadership.

The scruffy fucker is puddled.

 

[mowgli]

Corbyn won't last 2 years.Telling his MP's they MUST vote against action in Syria has done him no favours. When he was a backbencher he voted against the Labour leaders over 500 times,now he's leader he thinks all of his MP's should vote as he tells them to, doesn't he see the irony in this? I've voted Labour most of my life but i'd rather give my vote to The Lib Dems than Labour with this clown in charge.

 

[Aber gas]

I won't be voting labour if corbyn isn't in charge. He has a massive mandate from the wider party so any coup instigated by the plp will have consequences.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

Sorry but my view is that if a terrorist is killing people there can only be one outcome and that's their death to protect innocent people from being killed,live by the sword you can expect to die by it.

And if they're a Brazilian electrician?

 

[Christian Slater]

Corbyn won't last 2 years.Telling his MP's they MUST vote against action in Syria has done him no favours. When he was a backbencher he voted against the Labour leaders over 500 times,now he's leader he thinks all of his MP's should vote as he tells them to, doesn't he see the irony in this? I've voted Labour most of my life but i'd rather give my vote to The Lib Dems than Labour with this clown in charge.

That's called leading. The fact he thinks for himself and isn't scared to voice opinions against the grain shows he's a man of morals and principles. The effort the media are putting in to decimating his character should tell you he's upsetting the establishment. Jolly good, says I.

 

[smat]

I've voted Labour most of my life but i'd rather give my vote to The Lib Dems than Labour with this clown in charge.

Fucking hell, steady on mate.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

That's called leading. The fact he thinks for himself and isn't scared to voice opinions against the grain shows he's a man of morals and principles.

His position isn't the issue I don't think, it's the hypocrisy of going after dissenting backbenchers after he used to be one.

 

[mowgli]

Fucking hell, steady on mate.

There's only 2 parties that have a chance in Wells mate and that's Tory or Lib Dem,Labour have never got anywhere near winning here so i vote to keep the Tories out. Before moving here i had voted Labour since i could first vote in Slough in 1978.

 

[Christian Slater]

His position isn't the issue I don't think, it's the hypocrisy of going after dissenting backbenchers after he used to be one.

If hypocrisy is the unit we measure a politican (or even civilian) by there would be nobody with an ounce of credibility.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

There isn't

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

His position isn't the issue I don't think, it's the hypocrisy of going after dissenting backbenchers after he used to be one.

How has he "gone after backbenchers"