the middle east Thread

[Ebeneezer Goode]

It's not even a political goal. He has no intention of being president.

 

[HertsWolf]

Sure they're both nutters but one is committing a genocide against non-believers and the other is using lazy rhetoric to further a political goal. There isn't really a moral equivalency.

 

[HertsWolf]

It's not even a political goal. He has no intention of being president.

So you keep saying. It's expensive self-promotion, then. He's spending millions of dollars to say to half of America...."Hey, guys! I'm just like you" and to the other half "I'm a complete fucking moron!".

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

So you keep saying. It's expensive self-promotion, then.

They spent $4.2m last quarter, $3.9m came from donations, according to the last campaign finance review. He's only spent $1.9m of his own money in total.

 

[HertsWolf]

They spent $4.2m last quarter, $3.9m came from donations, according to the last campaign finance review. He's only spent $1.9m of his own money in total.

Bet it's a lot more this quarter.

And....$1.9m is a lot of money to spend to say "I'm the same as you" or "I'm totally different from you". If he isn't standing, it's slightly bizarre vanity publishing.

Edit: although the cynic in me (and I guess this is where you are coming from....) thinks that Trump makes all other Republican candidates look very reasonable.

 

[silkyman]

At what point is he going to pull the 'Brewster's Millions' move and say 'none of the above'? Because he's currently leading the republican race.

 

[Womble98]

And this one. Amazed no one has picked up on this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/opinion/sunday/the-first-victims-of-the-first-crusade.html?_r=0

You do realise that the first crusade started because Muslim seljuks were invading Anatolia, modern day Turkey? They pillaged Palestine and modern day Israel, driving Christians out. It wasn't unprovoked religious aggression from Christianity, which many people seem to think.

 

[HertsWolf]

You do realise that the first crusade started because Muslim seljuks were invading Anatolia, modern day Turkey? They pillaged Palestine and modern day Israel, driving Christians out. It wasn't unprovoked religious aggression from Christianity, which many people seem to think.

You "know" that's what most people think then?

 

[sl1k]

You do realise that the first crusade started because Muslim seljuks were invading Anatolia, modern day Turkey? They pillaged Palestine and modern day Israel, driving Christians out. It wasn't unprovoked religious aggression from Christianity, which many people seem to think.

I think you're countering selective simplification with more selective simplification.

 

[mente captus]

You do realise that the first crusade started because Muslim seljuks were invading Anatolia, modern day Turkey? They pillaged Palestine and modern day Israel, driving Christians out. It wasn't unprovoked religious aggression from Christianity, which many people seem to think.

no one of the christians had to leave Palestine or Constaninople and they were still allowed to be christians ( it wouldnt make sense otherwise as Jerusalem was roughly for 500 years under muslim control before the first crusade started)

furthermore:

should we now invade Rome/Italy they also killed christians 5 millions years ago

 

[Womble98]

You "know" that's what most people think then?

A large number of people think it, and use it to explain away religious violence from certain religions. i.e. "the christians went on crusades where they killed thousands of muslims". It is a genuinely commonly offered argument.

I think you're countering selective simplification with more selective simplification.

I see where you are coming from but by and large I disagree. Yes, it was an attempt to control the Holy Lands but there was a genuine call for help from the Byzantine emperor, as Muslim armies were invading his lands.

no one of the christians had to leave Palestine or Constaninople and they were still allowed to be christians ( it wouldnt make sense otherwise as Jerusalem was roughly for 500 years under muslim control before the first crusade started)

furthermore:

should we now invade Rome/Italy they also killed christians 5 millions years ago

I don't think I understand your point at all. If you are saying what I think you are saying, it isn't true either.

As the Byzantine borders expanded into the Levant in the early 11th century, the limited tolerance of the Muslim rulers toward Christians in the Middle East, began to wane. The Egyptian Fatimid Caliph Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah ordered the destruction of all churches throughout Al-Islam starting with the churches in Jerusalem. The Church of the Holy Sepulchre, revered by most Christians as the site of Christ's crucifixion and burial, was among the places of worship destroyed, but permission was later given for its rebuilding.

I'm not saying we should bomb muslims to get back at them for any past actions, if we all did that I think Britain would be fucked over by everyone. I'm responding to HertsWolfs point.

 

[HertsWolf]

I'm responding to HertsWolfs point.

Personally, I have no idea what you are responding to. I do, however, wonder if you actually realise that my posting of a news item about the crusades was simply an extreme example of 'old news' following someone else posting a news article a year out of date about violence in the name of religion.... It could just as well have been an article about the Spanish Inquisition or Cranmer's torture in Oxford.

 

[Techno Natch]

Yeah sorry Mordon I edited my post which has put it all out of context now.

 

[sl1k]

I see where you are coming from but by and large I disagree. Yes, it was an attempt to control the Holy Lands but there was a genuine call for help from the Byzantine emperor, as Muslim armies were invading his lands.

It was the geo politics of the day mate, land was being conceded and won - by both sides - from the middle east, north Africa to west and eastern Europe for hundreds of years up to the crusades. The Christians felt the momentum and sentiment among the populas was with them so they marched to retrieve the holy land.

I don't find it particularly helpful when either side plays the victim card. The victims were the women and children who got massacred in the middle, of all faiths and ethnicities.

 

[mnb089mnb]

Why are there people trying to justify the crusades? I don't understand.

 

[Womble98]

I was responding to a post from Herts which I think I misinterpreted.

 

[johnnytodd]

Lets face it Christians civilized the world.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

your history is gud

 

[johnnytodd]

School trips cancelled now because of the muslim terrorists ................. this countries traditions are being attacked daily now, something has to change imvho, dismissing people opinions as simply racist is no response.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...eing-trip-to-London-over-terrorism-fears.html

 

[sl1k]

School trips cancelled now because of the muslim terrorists ................. this countries traditions are being attacked daily now, something has to change imvho, dismissing people opinions as simply racist is no response.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...eing-trip-to-London-over-terrorism-fears.html

This is just the beginning mofo, soon school trips will be scrapped altogether! The ultimate revenge for the thousands upon thousands of children who've perished as a direct or indirect consequence of the Christian crusades and occupations since just the turn of this century. Allah Hu'Akbar!!!

 

[johnnytodd]

This is just the beginning mofo, soon school trips will be scrapped altogether! The ultimate revenge for the thousands upon thousands of children who've perished as a direct or indirect consequence of the Christian crusades and occupations since just the turn of this century. Allah Hu'Akbar!!!

Tit for tat you forget the 100's of thousands of europeans that were enslaved by muslims for 100's of years............but you only ever hear of the plight of black slaves though...........we are supreme, hence why all the world wish to live here

 

[sl1k]

Tit for tat

Oh so now that dead brown kids get mentioned it's tit for tat? You haven't the intelligience or consistency to be wumming round these bits Johnny bwoi, best stick to the simpler to execute xenophobia towards overseas fans in the PL forum.

 

[Aber gas]

School trips cancelled now because of the muslim terrorists ................. this countries traditions are being attacked daily now, something has to change imvho, dismissing people opinions as simply racist is no response.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...eing-trip-to-London-over-terrorism-fears.html

What would you like to change?

 

[Stagat]

I was in the minority that found Johnny mildly amusing in the Prem forum but fuck me it's easy to go off someone, isn't it?

 

[johnnytodd]

some sensitive types on this side of the forum isn't there, as if anything we do or say will change anything........it's just an informal chat

 

[.V.]

some sensitive types on this side of the forum isn't there, as if anything we do or say will change anything........it's just an informal chat

Just seen your new avatar. Are you a practicing Christian out of interest.

 

[johnnytodd]

Just seen your new avatar. Are you a practicing Christian out of interest.

i view it as a symbol of victory over sinners........

 

[.V.]

i view it as a symbol of victory over sinners........

A bit of an ambiguous answer to the question.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

could we trade him in and get a smart racist in pls

 

[silkyman]

Allah Hu'Akbar!!!