the Migrant Crisis

[johnnytodd]

the west have a better life than us it's not fair wish i could live there

 

[johnnytodd]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ceman-arrested-over-Air-France-bomb-hoax.html

I think it's outrageous! Another maniac passenger endangering a flight! The only way to resolve this is to ban passengers from flying!

It will be inconvenient, but we will win the war on terror this way. Better to be safe than sorry.

was he muslim?

 

[HertsWolf]

was he muslim?

Do you think he was?

 

[johnnytodd]

Do you think he was?

Dunno just asking

 

[johnnytodd]

Ah the spirit of compassion and humanity thrusts its dreamy, loving head into this thread as well.

Listen we've civilized the world, taught you how to do things and you fucked it up, worse still you now want our help to fix em.

And that's how i would conduct a history lesson in school if i was a teacher.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

guys stfu

 

[johnnytodd]

OK. So give us your view before you know whether he is Muslim or not.

mmm a lot of Muslims in France and i don't think a real french national would want to hurt his own.........so i'm gona go for yes, yes a muslim?

 

[AFCB_Mark]

Sweden has agreed a temporary exemption from the Schengen zone and imposed boarder controls to reduce the flow of migrants into the country.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35218921

All travellers wanting to cross the bridge from Denmark by train or bus, or use ferry services, will face documentation checks and will be refused entry without them. All rail commuters heading to Sweden will now have to change trains at Copenhagen Airport and go through ID checkpoints. Direct journeys from Copenhagen's main railway station across the Oresund Bridge to Sweden will no longer be available.

That's at least 30 minutes added into each commute for those who do it daily according to that article. Probably longer, so says a friend of mine who goes the other way, from somewhere near Lund in Sweden into Copenhagen Denmark and then back for his work semi regularly, so he's not over joyed. Apparently there;s many thousands who do it and it'll likely cost the two countries millions of man hours and damage the economy. But be that as it may, Sweden obviously deem it necessary, needs must.

 

[Alty]

Very predictable. Saying anyone could come was bonkers. The politicians have fucked up big time.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

Sweden's a pretty racist country with a surging far-right (the Swedish Democrats - who were and arguably still are neo-fascist, and absolutely are rabidly racist - are polling at 25%). The fact that they're damaging their economy in this way demonstrates how bereft of logic the nativist position is.

 

[Alty]

Sweden's a pretty racist country with a surging far-right (the Swedish Democrats - who were and arguably still are neo-fascist, and absolutely are rabidly racist - are polling at 25%). The fact that they're damaging their economy in this way demonstrates how bereft of logic the nativist position is.

1 in 5 people in Sweden were either born abroad or both of their parents were born abroad. It has long been renowned among the other Nordic states (and further afield, for those interested) for being a very politically correct place. It's precisely because the rate of immigration has been so fast and the political class have been unwilling to engage with the immigration/integration debate adequately that you're seeing the rise of an anti-immigration party like the Sweden Democrats. It's hardly an isolated phenomenon, is it?

It does strike me as odd, I have to say, when people who rail against racism and stereotyping say things like "Sweden's a pretty racist country".

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

whenever i get notifications from this thread i sing the title to the final countdown tune the syllables are perfect

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

1 in 5 people in Sweden were either born abroad or both of their parents were born abroad. It has long been renowned among the other Nordic states (and further afield, for those interested) for being a very politically correct place. It's precisely because the rate of immigration has been so fast and the political class have been unwilling to engage with the immigration/integration debate adequately that you're seeing the rise of an anti-immigration party like the Sweden Democrats. It's hardly an isolated phenomenon, is it?

It does strike me as odd, I have to say, when people who rail against racism and stereotyping say things like "Sweden's a pretty racist country".

I'm not against stereotyping. I'm in many ways pro-stereotyping. Stereotyping all cops as bastards is, to give an example, a good and useful thing. I'm against racist stereotyping cos I'm against racism.

As the UN puts it:

There continues to be a general Swedish self-perception of being a tolerant and humane society, which makes it difficult to accept that there could be structural and institutional racism faced by people of African descent,

Obviously polls showing that a quarter of voters would vote for an openly white supremacist party or the large and incredibly violent neo-nazi element would justify my stereotype.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ral-reputation-tarnished-as-race-attacks-rise

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

The fact that Sweden of all places has a healthy far-right only serves to illustrate the futility of militant 'anti-fascist' action and the various forms of censorship and social engineering that the Swedish establishment seems to love so much. These things help do the far-rights job for them.

Sweden's a pretty racist country with a surging far-right (the Swedish Democrats - who were and arguably still are neo-fascist, and absolutely are rabidly racist - are polling at 25%). The fact that they're damaging their economy in this way demonstrates how bereft of logic the nativist position is.

There are lots of forms of regulation that necessarily hurt the economy, but that doesn't mean they don't improve people's quality of life. And it's not like it's logical to import a foreign working class to undercut your own while expecting to reap greater prosperity and social cohesion for the poor either, yet that's what they (and we) still do.

 

[Art Morte]

So, what about what happened in Cologne on New Year's Eve? Up to a thousand refugees harassing, sexually assaulting and mugging women.

Doesn't sound good at all.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

So, what about what happened in Cologne on New Year's Eve? Up to a thousand refugees harassing, sexually assaulting and mugging women.

Doesn't sound good at all.

Is there any evidence the crimes were perpetrated by refugees? Please don't link to any far-right bullshit peddlers.

 

[Alty]

Is there any evidence the crimes were perpetrated by refugees? Please don't link to any far-right bullshit peddlers.

It was widely reported by news agencies that the men were of "North African or Middle Eastern appearance".

The refugee thing came from a (bastard) cop who was probably stereotyping (in a bad way, not the really useful way).

 

[Art Morte]

Is there any evidence the crimes were perpetrated by refugees? Please don't link to any far-right bullshit peddlers.

You pretty much have to just put two and two together: They were of Arab and North African appearance and recently a lot of those people have arrived to Germany as refugees. And they called something like this happening in this scale totally unprecedented. That's just not a coincidence for me.

 

[Aber gas]

You pretty much have to just put two and two together: They were of Arab and North African appearance and recently a lot of those people have arrived to Germany as refugees. And they called something like this happening in this scale totally unprecedented. That's just not a coincidence for me.

So these are just some assumptions you've made ?

 

[Techno Natch]

You pretty much have to just put two and two together: They were of Arab and North African appearance and recently a lot of those people have arrived to Germany as refugees. And they called something like this happening in this scale totally unprecedented. That's just not a coincidence for me.

No you don't.......

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

do u all remember this? bunch of libyan men on training in the uk end up committing sexual abuses including a rape during a night out in cambridge. different countries have different attitudes towards sex. obviously, some are quite abhorrent

 

[Art Morte]

So these are just some assumptions you've made ?

Well, what's your explanation to 1000 "Arab and North African young males" harassing, sexually assaulting and mugging women in Cologne? Why now? Why in such big numbers? You reckon the majority of them were Germans? Tourists? What's your explanation?

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

I'm not against stereotyping. I'm in many ways pro-stereotyping. Stereotyping all cops as bastards is, to give an example, a good and useful thing. I'm against racist stereotyping cos I'm against racism.

As the UN puts it:



Obviously polls showing that a quarter of voters would vote for an openly white supremacist party or the large and incredibly violent neo-nazi element would justify my stereotype.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ral-reputation-tarnished-as-race-attacks-rise

You could, by the same token, regard Muslims as being rabidly homophobic and misogynistic (a view you could very easily support with reference to myriad social attitude surveys). Would this not constitute good and useful stereotyping?

 

[Aber gas]

Well, what's your explanation to 1000 "Arab and North African young males" harassing, sexually assaulting and mugging women in Cologne? Why now? Why in such big numbers? You reckon the majority of them were Germans? Tourists? What's your explanation?

The timing of the story is interesting to me, it's as if violent crime has never happened before in a major city. The use of "unprecedented" and "unbelievable "in the stories I've read are misleading when you consider the violence that has marred other significant events. I'd like to see some figures regarding personal crime in other cites on New Year's Eve because even the Cologne police aren't sure whether this was an organised, coordinated attack or something more random.
I don't know who these attackers are or what nationality they are. Even the police and reporters aren't sure beyond some vague racial stereotypes. Perhaps they're German ? Who knows ? I don't but then I'm not the one making assumptions based on prejudice.

 

[Alty]

You could, by the same token, regard Muslims as being rabidly homophobic and misogynistic (a view you could very easily support with reference to myriad social attitude surveys). Would this not constitute good and useful stereotyping?

Course not. Doesn't fit in with the regressive left world view. Anyone who isn't a heterosexual white male should be presumed innocent of any unpleasant behaviour. And when they are proved guilty of such behaviour, it's only happened as a result of the actions of heterosexual white males. As you of all people should know, good fruit, no other people on earth have any agency whatsoever.

 

[Art Morte]

The timing of the story is interesting to me, it's as if violent crime has never happened before in a major city. The use of "unprecedented" and "unbelievable "in the stories I've read are misleading when you consider the violence that has marred other significant events. I'd like to see some figures regarding personal crime in other cites on New Year's Eve because even the Cologne police aren't sure whether this was an organised, coordinated attack or something more random.
I don't know who these attackers are or what nationality they are. Even the police and reporters aren't sure beyond some vague racial stereotypes. Perhaps they're German ? Who knows ? I don't but then I'm not the one making assumptions based on prejudice.

The Cologne police chief called it "a completely new dimension of crime", that qualifies as "unprecedented" in my book...

A policeman told the city's Express news website that he had detained eight suspects. "They were all asylum seekers, carrying copies of their residence certificates," he said.

A British woman visiting Cologne said fireworks had been thrown at her group by men who spoke neither German nor English. "They were trying to hug us, kiss us. One man stole my friend's bag," she told the BBC.


But yeah, no indication what so ever that this is in any way linked to refugees...

 

[Aber gas]

The Cologne police chief called it "a completely new dimension of crime", that qualifies as "unprecedented" in my book...

A policeman told the city's Express news website that he had detained eight suspects. "They were all asylum seekers, carrying copies of their residence certificates," he said.

A British woman visiting Cologne said fireworks had been thrown at her group by men who spoke neither German nor English. "They were trying to hug us, kiss us. One man stole my friend's bag," she told the BBC.


But yeah, no indication what so ever that this is in any way linked to refugees...

So you've got one anonymous policeman, no official story and the chief of police and justice minister warning against linking the attacks with refugees. Saying that I'm working off the BBC website which of course could be wrong, in fact the only online news outlet I can find which is categorically stating that all the attackers are refugees is thenewobserveronline. Think they may have an agenda mind. This debate reminds me off the bile spewed towards the poorest after the Paris attacks.

 

[mnb089mnb]

whenever i get notifications from this thread i sing the title to the final countdown tune the syllables are perfect

Which is apt, as it was the band "Europe" who first recorded the song.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

which is also apt cause europe don't exist anymore

 

[Art Morte]

So you've got one anonymous policeman, no official story and the chief of police and justice minister warning against linking the attacks with refugees. Saying that I'm working off the BBC website which of course could be wrong, in fact the only online news outlet I can find which is categorically stating that all the attackers are refugees is thenewobserveronline. Think they may have an agenda mind. This debate reminds me off the bile spewed towards the poorest after the Paris attacks.

Of course the authorities are not going to come out and say "the refugees were responsible for this" unless they're 100% certain, it's not the PC thing to do. Doesn't mean we have to play dumb.

Something like this doesn't happen in society just by chance. Therefore, I'm looking for an explanation. The only explanation I find, is the refugees. I'm willing to entertain other possibilities if you just can offer them.