American mass shooting thread

[Abertawe]

Homophobia may have its roots in religion (let's face it all three Abrahamic religions are inherently homophobic) but it's a much wider societal issue which though improving does still invoke virulent hatreds. There's been many attacks in this country on the gay community by the far right, for example, not usually inspired by religion.

Have there? When?

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

Have there? When?

see david copeland

 

[blade1889]

no-one said that though?

nice response though, classy, and ofc we needed that tone

Erm...the father that I disagree with

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

oh ofc. obviously the father doesn't know as much as our sutts does

 

[blade1889]

Homophobia may have its roots in religion (let's face it all three Abrahamic religions are inherently homophobic) but it's a much wider societal issue which though improving does still invoke virulent hatreds. There's been many attacks in this country on the gay community by the far right, for example, not usually inspired by religion.

How many of them have been mass-murders? Do you believe this had no religious motivation?

 

[Abertawe]

Aye an utter c*** but I don't see how a lone daranged weirdo (who targeted ethnic minorities too) gives way to there being a distinct far right assault on the gay community of this country.

 

[TheArtfulDodger]

How many of them have been mass-murders? Do you believe this had no religious motivation?

The intent was the same, to kill and injure gay people. I have no idea, it may well do and I'm in no way trying to defend religion, I think Christinaity, Islam and Judaism are homophobic and that won't ever change. Just that homophobia is not always religiously motivated and goes a lot further.

 

[blade1889]

oh ofc. obviously the father doesn't know as much as our sutts does

So you believe someone with ties to Islamic extremism is not at all influenced by religion in his homophobia to murder 50 people? Purely societal?

I expect you're not so naive as to believe that and are being purposefully contrary.

 

[blade1889]

The intent was the same, to kill and injure gay people. I have no idea, it may well do and I'm in no way trying to defend religion, I think Christinaity, Islam and Judaism are homophobic and that won't ever change. Just that homophobia is not always religiously motivated and goes a lot further.

I'm not suggesting it is or that Islam is a lone religion in being homophobic

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

So you believe someone with ties to Islamic extremism is not at all influenced by religion in his homophobia to murder 50 people? Purely societal?

I expect you're not so naive as to believe that and are being purposefully contrary.

homophobic hate crime isn't a new thing. neither are mass shootings in america. i'm saying let's wait and see yeah? i'm also saying u can hate and kill without religion (e.g. the biggest terror attack in america after 9/11). islamic extremism isn't even the u.s.'s biggest domestic security risk. according to the fbi it is sovereign citizens. the far right also have blown up abortion clinics and the like, so i am saying let's wait, and i'm saying not everything is necessarily because of islam (especially when his father and ex-wife both said he wasn't very religious)

 

[blade1889]

homophobic hate crime isn't a new thing. neither are mass shootings in america. i'm saying let's wait and see yeah? i'm also saying u can hate and kill without religion (e.g. the biggest terror attack in america after 9/11). islamic extremism isn't even the u.s.'s biggest domestic security risk. according to the fbi it is sovereign citizens. the far right also have blown up abortion clinics and the like, so i am saying let's wait, and i'm saying not everything is necessarily because of islam (especially when his father and ex-wife both said he wasn't very religious)

He called 911 to pledge allegiance to ISIS 'moments before' his rampage. That's clear evidence for it being a religiously motivated attack and his father and ex-wife are either lying or blind to their child's fundamentalism.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/or...t-motivated-orlando-nightclub-shooter-n590496

 

[NorfolkWomble]

He was an Islamic extremist.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

i am just remembering how some (some in this thread even) immediately jumped on the paris attack to claim refugees were to blame, before any info had come out, whilst people were literally dying on the streets. when of course it later turned out that all the attackers were europeans. i don't think it's too much to say let's wait a little for info

i hadn't seen that isis news tbf

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

seeing all these condemnations from nominally homophobic republicans rubs me the wrong way. i'm looking at pat mcrory and others, ones who lowered the flags when gay marriage was legalised, ones who campaigned non-stop for legalised discrimination against homosexuals. it's not normalising violence but it is normalising hatred

 

[silkyman]

See also the ones who take the NRA's grubby money and then offer 'prayers' for people killed like this.

I saw a YouTube clip of Obama earlier (from just before this shooting) that I can't find now, but he was basically saying that because of NRA lobbying via these c***, you can put a suspected terrorist on the no fly list, but you can't stop them buying a gun.

If this guy was on any watch list (which I've seen differing reports about) then it's down to their own policies that he was able to buy a gun at all.

 

[silkyman]

oh ofc. obviously the father doesn't know as much as our sutts does

Or he has a vested interest in playing down the religious angle....

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Agree re the homophobes & NRA sympathisers/supporters. Sticks in the craw somewhat.

This is really awful

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

Or he has a vested interest in playing down the religious angle....

his ex-wife too?

 

[silkyman]

Want to avoid guilt by association. Or perhaps he was radicalised later. It happens

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Obama is calling it a terrorist attack and he'd been on the FBI watchlist as an Islamist sympathiser for a while. They're reporting on ITV that he said he'd been inspired by ISIS. ISIS have also claimed responsibility. Doesn't seem like there's much ambiguity here. The family are always going to be biased.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

be interested to see whether there has been any communication between him and the islamic state. a lot of these, the san bernadino terrorists for example, seem to be influenced by their teachings but have no actual contact with the group

 

[Christian Slater]

Nobody conducting attacks has any real contact with the base, and they certainly don't encourage it. They're a figurehead, their message is there for all to see and be inspired by.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

the paris/brussels cells certainly had some communication with raqqah. not sure if they were actually ordered to by the high ups in the islamic state, more of a high up asking another high up who passed an order down and so on. i imagine there was far more of a link there than with the american/canadian/australian ones

 

[Abertawe]

Aye. It seems any mentally ill c*** (, you surely have to be fucked up to do summit like this) can "pledge allegiance to Isis" before going on the rampage.

If I rang the police now and said I support IS, went outside and shot someone, am I an IS fighter or a crazed loon?

Religious grounding almost certainly played a part in this though. Homophobia essentially stems from religion.

 

[blade1889]

If I rang the police now and said I support IS, went outside and shot someone, am I an IS fighter or a crazed loon?

Both?

 

[Abertawe]

Just want to make it abundantly clear I've never had contact with the ISIS call centre. Just incase my post has popped up in gchq.

 

[smat]

Just want to make it abundantly clear I've never had contact with the ISIS call centre. Just incase my post has popped up in gchq.

For my upcoming 30th, I'm having some pals round to do a bit of a canal bar crawl and then settling at a pub called the Isis (the bit of the Thames that goes through Oxford is called the Isis). I've been worried about messaging multiple people on Whatsapp to see if they're up for getting on a boat and ending up at Isis.

 

[blade1889]

This is the 175th mass shooting (involving 4 or more dead/wounded) in America this yeah. Wow.

 

[GodsGift]

 

[silkyman]

For my upcoming 30th, I'm having some pals round to do a bit of a canal bar crawl and then settling at a pub called the Isis (the bit of the Thames that goes through Oxford is called the Isis). I've been worried about messaging multiple people on Whatsapp to see if they're up for getting on a boat and ending up at Isis.

Was reading about that sort of thing a while ago.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36389582