Champions League 2017/18

[epic73]

According to ESPN:

If Ronaldo was a club he'd be in the top 10 CL scorers.

 

[St. Juste]

It was a great example of propaganda when the Ronaldo goal, phenomenal as it was, was being compared to Rooneys overhead kick against Man City.

Indeed, in the BBC poll, Rooneys call comes third behind Ibrahimovics 40 yarder vs. England.

Now, in watching the goals you quickly see that Rooney is no where near as Ronaldo, and shins it in from much closer to the goal. It's no where near comparable.

Regarding the Ronaldo, Messi debate - it's clear to me that Messi is the more talented, rounded footballer who is capable of doing more things on the pitch in terms of technique, vision, passing etc.

Ronaldo on the other hand, who is less naturally talented but has honed and adapted his game over many years. As a poacher and finisher has is fantastic, utterly unparalleled.

But goals alone is an inadequate measure of Messis contribution.

Messi is better, but Ronaldo deserves far more credit for his dedication and drive for self improvement. Remember when the English media used to think Rooney was better?

 

[Skinner]

I came here to fawn over Ronaldo's goal and yet I find James Milner 'inspecting' mini eggs and St. Juste having a dig at an English player for scoring a bicycle kick nearly 10 years ago.

FUCK THIS FORUM

 

[Benji]

It's a good point about shinners though. Not sure they should realistically be compared to a shot of genuinely good technique like Ronaldo's or Ibrahimavic's.

 

[Bilo]

I came here to fawn over Ronaldo's goal and yet I find James Milner 'inspecting' mini eggs and St. Juste having a dig at an English player for scoring a bicycle kick nearly 10 years ago.

FUCK THIS FORUM

welcome back

byebye

 

[Bilo]

Found on "another forum":

Traditional Tactful Tactics Talk Time Topic with the Translating Twat

While the above is all well and good, we still need to beat this Manchester City side - perhaps the strongest side I have personally seen in the Premier League era. So the questions are:-
What do they do that is effective?
How do we stop that shit?
How do we hurt them?

What do they do that is effective?
There are a number of things that this City does well. They win the largest ratio of aerial duels of any side in the league. They have excellent width stretching sides horizontally. They have pace at the top end of the pitch allowing them to stretch teams vertically. They pace in their backline allowing them to play a very high line to compress play in the opposition half. They are loaded with needle players like Silva, De Bruyne, Sterling, Sane, Bernardo, Jesus, Aguero who are excellent in tight spaces. They are well balanced in midfield with Fernandinho proving an excellent protector of the defence. I could be here all day in this part really. I want to highlight two particular things though here.

1. Using width to create space.
Man City and Liverpool are very similar in many ways tactically. One major difference though is in who provides width, how they use it, who takes advantage of the spaces being created.

Unlike Liverpool, Man City's wide forwards in the 4-3-3 shape are wide. Very wide. They tend to be almost standing on the touchline until the final phase of their attacking play. I remember Henry telling the story of when he was a wide forward for Barcelona and his zones were mapped out using cones in training. In the match, he moved inside in the buildup phase and scored. He was then subbed off for not following tactical instruction.

There are two aims of this in the build up in the attacking phase. The first is to stretch sides horizontally - which will open up the half spaces. De Bruyne and Silva can then move into these areas and pick the opposition apart when Sane & Sterling start making those runs from out to in as they do. The second aim is to bypass the oppositions block with diagonal balls from midfield onto the wings rapidly changing the point of attack. Typically this causes a large shift in opposition players from central to the flank and usually allows a player on the ball-far side to be left in large amounts of space to isolate a defender. We say this a lot at Barcelona with Villa being open on the left. Also at Bayern with Robben on the right.

So one of two things happen as a consequence of that width. The opposition will either open up their shape giving City space, or City can quickly move the ball from outside the block to the deepest point of their attack or even in behind the block if they can split the full back and center back with the right run and pass. But the dangers of this approach doesn't end there because...

2. Ederson is Pirlo
This guy is ridiculous. He almost certainly played in midfield before moving into goal as his awareness, passing range and calmness in possession are all way above anything I have seen before in a goalkeeper. He isn't the best shot stopper in the league - in fact in terms of the xg for just shots on target vs goals conceded he comes out around average in the league. But that isn't why Pep signed him. Pep's system is all about control and penetration. Ederson is just another tool to maintain control and give even greater penetration.

City invite sides to press up on their center backs and goalkeeper. This allows them to stretch the play out and create spaces in midfield and the final third. Unlike most goalkeepers, Ederson is very capable of finding City's front 5 in space over medium-long distances at ease. From goal kicks, they also want sides to press up so they can isolate the back line. Ederson will then play over it with deadly accurate long passes into the final third where City's pacey players are almost guaranteed to win the ball. Or they can force defenders into making back-pedalling headers and win the second balls as the oppositions midfield was stretched out trying to press up.

How do we stop that shit?
We have actually done pretty well in this sense whenever we have 11 men on the pitch against them this season. Remaining compact is crucial to everything Klopp drills us to do and therefore we don't get stretched out. Our full backs all have plenty of pace. Our center backs are all quick across the ground. We don't push up on goal kicks as a team and instead let Firmino & Salah set ambush between defence and midfield.

My worry is Gomez as he tends to struggle on those diagonal balls and has awareness issues. Clyne isn't fit enough to go 1-v-1 with Sane for 90 minutes and Trent lacks experience but would probably be my choice of the 3 for the first match. He will need support though.

But as long as we can stay reasonably compact and maintain good defensive access we should be okay against them. When we have allowed ourselves to be stretched out by City this season, we have got picked apart.

How do we hurt them?
In some ways, this is one area we don't really need to worry about. Pep's entire system is about control. From the players they sign, the way they train, the tactics they use - everything is about control. Klopp's system is all about disrupting control. Which is why his record against Guardiola is better than any manager that has faced him more than a handful of times and the manager who he has suffered the most defeats to despite always going into the games with the favourite of the tie. (Played 12, W5, D1, L6). If you turn the game into a high-paced transition game then that control is gone and anything can happen. City have a lot of talent so they can almost certainly still hurt us here. But it is more in our favour to play in this way and you would expect our lot to have the upper hand here.

In terms of dealing with Ederson, there are two weaknesses I think he has in his game. Firstly, when he is forced to playing things rushed or first time. He is certainly capable of doing so but those moments when things go badly for him all tend to fall under this category. Also, he likes chipping passes out to the full backs and they are ripe for pressing traps when he does. Often the passes aren't that easy to take down and control so the full backs are looking to head them infield to De Bruyne / Silva to build the attack. That is almost certainly an area I would like to ambush them with someone pressing hard on the full back when the ball is in the air and then a second lying in wait to ambush the second ball.

Lastly, their center backs, as good as they are, can be got at too. Stones has a mistake in him when rushed and also seems to have some blindspots where he loses players in. So Firmino will be absolutely vital for us. He always fucks City up with his pressing, movement and clever tactical play in creating quick overloads.

I worry that Milner doesn't have the legs for this match. Also worry about Can's propensity for just switching off or giving up on plays at times. Think Henderson-Gini-Ox might be the group with Firmino dropping in on Fernandinho to give us the 4-v-3 in there.

Excited for this already. Won't be a dull game. I think we take any sort of lead out of the first leg and we will win the tie.

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=339719.msg15948412#msg15948412

 

[G-Dragon]

The Man City side - who were in no way going to be impacted by the coach greeting - have arrived 3 hours early to avoid the crowd

That is one part of the job done for us

 

[shane]

The Man City side - who were in no way going to be impacted by the coach greeting - have arrived 3 hours early to avoid the crowd

That is one part of the job done for us

We've as good as won the first leg. Handshakes all round.

 

[Pagnell]

Anything less than a win tonight and you have to say we're likely to be out. Preferably without them scoring.

Got a suspicion we're going to have a draw on our hands and a real struggle in the second leg.

2-2

 

[Bilo]

Liverpool: Karius, Alexander-Arnold, Lovren, Van Dijk, Robertson, Milner, Henderson, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Mane, Salah, Firmino.

City: Ederson, Laporte, Kompany, Otamendi, David Silva, Fernandinho, Gundogan, De Bruyne, Sané, Jesus, Walker.

So De Bruyne on the wing? If Guardiola goes three at the back he's fucking nuts.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

It'll be a back three to break the press, the same as against Everton. I think he's playing into Liverpool's hands though by gimping Sane into a wingback position. Stones must be seriously out of favour too because he's the best passer from the back they have.

 

[SALTIRE]

Sterling I see been dropped. Pep knows he's a wuss.

 

[G-Dragon]

They can't park the bus if it is smashed

 

[SALTIRE]

Need a few drams here to calm me down a bit!

 

[Pagnell]

What are you doing off camera down there?

 

[SALTIRE]

SALAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!

 

[Pagnell]

Fucking have it. The man.

1-0

 

[Pagnell]

So calm. You can't be taught that shit, you either have it or you don't.

 

[SALTIRE]

OXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX!!!!!

 

[Pagnell]

Nice start.

 

[snortingfrogs]

AL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What a strike!!

 

[G-Dragon]

bbbbut we were robbed!

 

[G-Dragon]

MANE MANE MANEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

 

[SALTIRE]

MANEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

 

[G.B]

hahaha gitfukt silky

 

[snortingfrogs]

Mané! =)

 

[Pagnell]

Absolutely deserved. This isn't even close, we're pissing on them.

3-0

 

[Renegade]

This is brilliant.

I don't understand any of Guardiola's contentious selections. Sterling is a fantastic outlet, Gundogan isn't offering anything in defence or attack. Laporte looks lost at wing back (as would any CB on the wing vs Salah) and has given the ball away more than a handful of times in his own half or dangerous territory. Absolutely bizarre selection.

I hope they score another 5. Klopp really has the only system to beat Guardiola regularly, a team with that high of a press and that quick of a counter. If any City players lose the ball, they have no defence as they play so high. I can't see them doing this against Madrid or Barcelona, though I think Klopp is destined to be the thorn in Guardiola's side.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

Gundogan looks like a pub team Oxlade-Chamberlain right now

 

[G.B]

please dont fuck this up liverpool. it's all fun and games right now but don't do that thing where your defence does something stupid and concedes, then confidence drops and you fall apart.