Explosion at Manchester Arena

[Big Bird]

Just typing thoughts...not asking for answers here...

What's the end game in all of this? These people are cowards, it will never turn into a civil war because the majority of them would curl up and hide if it came to fighting on the streets.

At the same time this ideology doesn't look like it will ever go away. Right now you can bet there are young 15 and 16 year olds who are being brainwashed all over the country who are destined to be future terrorists.

I don't see how this era of extremism on our shores can end. It might go quiet like it always does after an attack (I'd be surprised if anything happens while we've got the military deployed for example) but it's now accepted I think that it's only a matter of time till the next atrocity.

I feel like these bastards will always now have us in check but see it as impossible for them to ever to be able to declare check mate.

So much will be lost over the coming years with nothing to gain.

How can either side ever win this war?

 

[Abertawe]

I think it's fairly well documented that Britain / America and 'the west' generally speaking, have in the past supported either implicitly or explicitly, many of the people who later became involved in these radical Islamist organisations. For example when they were fighting the Soviets in the 80s. Both the Taliban and Al-qaeda have roots from that war with the Soviets.

It goes to show that it's not a black and white world, it's grey. And that works both ways. The radical Islamist ideology paints an extremely black and white world in which everyone else is an infidel and a fair target.

Ironically given the example you cite Ian, this family in question was granted asylum, citizenship, welfare and education in this county because they were fleeing from Gadafi and Libya.

Unfortunately and tragically, their son got himself twisted around into hating the country and city that welcomed his parents. Hating the country and city that offered him the opportunities that come from a large vibrant, diverse, well invested and friendly city like Manchester. Something clearly went very wrong.

 

[Captain Scumbag]

With regard to the foreign policy angle, now isn't the worst time to watch (or re-watch) Bitter Lake by Adam Curtis. A decent and very accessible starting point, at least.

It's still avaiable on the i-Player. Link here.

 

[The Eyes of Self Actual]

http://news.sky.com/story/manchester-bombing-woman-looked-very-suspicious-before-attack-10889847

Amazing video (top one).

The security forces need to change their reactions to tips from the public.

 

[Jockney]

Unfortunately and tragically, their son got himself twisted around into hating the country and city that welcomed his parents. Hating the country and city that offered him the opportunities that come from a large vibrant, diverse, well invested and friendly city like Manchester. Something clearly went very wrong.

I love London and I've loved Manchester the times I've been there. But the metropolis is as much a locus of startling inequality, intense structural oppression and startling isolation as it is a hub for diverse culture, the arts and economic opportunities. For millions of people, this country is not a nice or safe place to live. It could be and it should be, but it isn't.

 

[Blitzballer]

http://news.sky.com/story/manchester-bombing-woman-looked-very-suspicious-before-attack-10889847

Amazing video (top one).

The security forces need to change their reactions to tips from the public.

A woman has been arrested in the last hour, perhaps her?

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Always difficult to know how to respond to events such as this. I think it's natural to feel angry, fearful, helpless but it's also quite clear to me that there are no obvious answers in terms of combating terrorism, not unless we want to enact appallingly draconian and discriminatory policies that ought to be anathema to us all. A backlash against Muslims can only result in greater division and alienation which would only serve as good news to those who recruit would-be Jihadis. I'm not sure how we can practically respond to the idea that "more must be done" either. Things are done. We have a counter-terrorism and anti-radicalisation strategy and a security service that regularly foils attacks. People found to be preparing acts of terror have been arrested, charged and convicted. But there's always a likelihood that someone will slip under the radar and if they want to commit an atrocity then they'll likely find a way to do just that (I.E.Ds and vehicular homicide are but two incredibly crude, but scarily effective methods). I do think that at times like this it's useful to keep a sense of perspective. Prior to this year the last time the UK experienced a large-scale mass-casualty terrorist attack was 2005. The chances of your or your loved ones experiencing such a horrific event are quite minuscule. That doesn't remotely lessen the horror of what happened in Manchester on Monday, but, when something is inexplicable, I think sometimes it's worth reminding ourselves that one of the reasons we struggle to respond to an event such as this is because it really is extraordinarily rare.

 

[Abertawe]

It turns out my aunty & little cousin attended this. Doesn't bare thinking about.

 

[Andrew_W]

The only way forward:
https://bnp.org.uk/join/

 

[Aber gas]

The only way forward:
https://bnp.org.uk/join/

I'd urge everybody who agrees with the BNP to vote for them or UKIP at the forthcoming elections. You deserve each other.

 

[Veggie Legs]

Theresa May wants to use this attack as an excuse to reduce online security for everyone http://boingboing.net/2017/05/24/tories-vs-technology.html

 

[Dave]

Our local theatre has sent out this:

We would like to ask that you leave all bags at home, as you will not be permitted to take these into the auditorium. Small hand bags will be acceptable, but may be searched.

This enhanced level of security is something that most venues across the country are implementing, following general security advice. Like many other theatres and venues, our procedures have been developed with advice from the National Counter Terrorism Security Office.

The bags won't be allowed in the auditorium but will be in the foyer!

How far do they go with this though as if they ended up pushing security to the entrance of the building they would only cause more crowds outside anyway and you always have the packed stations etc which would be just as bad an outcome. I guess all venues will eventually push this security to the front door to protect themselves, this won't be easy at bigger places such as the o2.

 

[Renegade]

I'm aware that the government, venues and businesses need to be seen to do something in the wake of this attack, but these increased security measures aren't even a bandage to this problem, let alone a solution. They are more than likely a waste of time and money, only servicing to make people more wary and fearful of attending any event. If an attacker slips past intelligence, there is nothing to stop them from blowing themselves up or running people over in large crowds. Terrorists have targeted typical events in which people congregate, but even if they can't get into the MEN, Wembley, the local theatre...there is nothing to stop them from attacking a congregation on the high street or a crowd that has formed after any of the events that can occur outside any of these venues, in villages, towns or cities. I know it all sounds very defeatist, but it isn't a problem that can be solved with increased security measures, it just puts more power in the hands of the government, spreads fear amongst the populace and diverts spending from areas of society that can tangibly be improved. A reactionary response is natural as we are an empathetic species, but it's not actually helping anyone, people become useful idiots.

 

[HertsWolf]

Heartbreaking seeing all these kids being confirmed as dead. And one mum who drove all the way to pick up someone else's kid. There's a lot of empty, unfillable holes in people's lives right now.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

I'm aware that the government, venues and businesses need to be seen to do something in the wake of this attack, but these increased security measures aren't even a bandage to this problem, let alone a solution. They are more than likely a waste of time and money, only servicing to make people more wary and fearful of attending any event. If an attacker slips past intelligence, there is nothing to stop them from blowing themselves up or running people over in large crowds. Terrorists have targeted typical events in which people congregate, but even if they can't get into the MEN, Wembley, the local theatre...there is nothing to stop them from attacking a congregation on the high street or a crowd that has formed after any of the events that can occur outside any of these venues, in villages, towns or cities. I know it all sounds very defeatist, but it isn't a problem that can be solved with increased security measures, it just puts more power in the hands of the government, spreads fear amongst the populace and diverts spending from areas of society that can tangibly be improved. A reactionary response is natural as we are an empathetic species, but it's not actually helping anyone, people become useful idiots.

That doesn't sound remotely defeatist imo

 

[T.A]

It seems to me that a lot more work and intelligence should go into the people that make these bombs/devices. Probably impossible to do that but you stop the bombs then you stop the action.

 

[T.A]

https://twitter.com/robharris/status/867693425415643137

 

[Abertawe]

So he was in Germany in the days leading up. Complete freedom of movement is pathetic.

 

[The Eyes of Self Actual]

...

What's the end game in all of this? These people are cowards, it will never turn into a civil war because the majority of them would curl up and hide if it came to fighting on the streets.

The end game for them is an Islamic planet. Death to all non-believers. The Quran states this multiple times.

People repeat the media’s lies and propaganda that ISIS is nothing to do with religion. They couldn’t be further from the truth (what do you expect from FAKE NEWS?). ISIS are extremely religious, as are their followers. Killing non-believers is the goal until it’s an Islamic planet. Sharia Law throughout.

At the same time this ideology doesn't look like it will ever go away. Right now you can bet there are young 15 and 16 year olds who are being brainwashed all over the country who are destined to be future terrorists.

The security services have an impossible job. How many Islamic teens are there in Britain? Hundreds of thousands. Most will not follow the texts as they are written and will live peaceful lives. But how on earth can you find the extremists?

I don't see how this era of extremism on our shores can end.

It won’t end. Our politicians and the left-wing loons are hell-bent on destroying Europe. The ship has sailed. It’s damage limitation now but we can’t even agree on that. Secure borders? Not a chance.

How can either side ever win this war?

Islam - Demographics. Child birth. Well on their way.

Europeans – banning religion? Kicking them all out? No chance.. No idea, no plan, limited future. The only tactic we have got is “ignore and carry on – stiff upper lips chaps”. In other words lying to ourselves and falling for our own naïve propaganda.

 

[Benji]

Get a grip, you're embarrassing yourself.

 

[TheMinsterman]

Care to substantiate your spurious ramblings?

I suggest you start to, buzzwords aren't classed as sources.

 

[The Eyes of Self Actual]

What do you want sources on?

 

[Abertawe]

It's like every cliché rolled into one.

 

[TheMinsterman]

What do you want sources on?

Impartial sources to support the numerous assertions you keep making about the death of Europe and the self-destructive altruism of "soft lefties".

 

[Renegade]

I'm mystified by his end-game - trying to convert a few people on a small politics sub-forum of a small football forum? Like, just send us the Infowars or Stefan Molyneux links and be done with it.

 

[Andrew_W]

What do you want sources on?

Grow up Ian

 

[Super_horns]

Sounds like a shopping centre in Bristol has been evacuated - guess everyone just has to be that extra cautious and wary..

 

[Aber gas]

Sounds like a shopping centre in Bristol has been evacuated - guess everyone just has to be that extra cautious and wary..

It was Newport in South Wales. I was at the train station when it happened. Turned out to be some daft twat leaving a bag on the street and then another dull twat leaving his van outside the shopping centre.

 

[T.A]

The end game for them is an Islamic planet. Death to all non-believers. The Quran states this multiple times.

People repeat the media’s lies and propaganda that ISIS is nothing to do with religion. They couldn’t be further from the truth (what do you expect from FAKE NEWS?). ISIS are extremely religious, as are their followers. Killing non-believers is the goal until it’s an Islamic planet. Sharia Law throughout.



The security services have an impossible job. How many Islamic teens are there in Britain? Hundreds of thousands. Most will not follow the texts as they are written and will live peaceful lives. But how on earth can you find the extremists?



It won’t end. Our politicians and the left-wing loons are hell-bent on destroying Europe. The ship has sailed. It’s damage limitation now but we can’t even agree on that. Secure borders? Not a chance.



Islam - Demographics. Child birth. Well on their way.

Europeans – banning religion? Kicking them all out? No chance.. No idea, no plan, limited future. The only tactic we have got is “ignore and carry on – stiff upper lips chaps”. In other words lying to ourselves and falling for our own naïve propaganda.

Are you trying to radicalise us?

 

[Alty]

Question Time was good last night. A lot of support for Prevent - or at least the concept of Prevent - from Sara Khan, Nazir Afzal and Colin Parry.

For the most part very sensible contributions from the audience too. The issue of foreign policy did come up but it was acknowledged by Muslim members of the audience and the panel that extremist preaching in U.K. mosques remains a serious problem and leads to radicalisation.

Burnham gave a pretty shameless performance. Playing to the gallery at every opportunity. I guess if ever you're going to get away with "Manchester is the greatest city in the world" then this week is the time. It doesn't really add anything, though.